Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
If not more zealous, Opn. A reb was a soldier, a bushwacker was a mad dog. Guess which one gets a cuppa and which gets lead.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I've let you guys cast disperstions upon their character long enough. I reckon if the bell started ringin' .... If that call went out ....
"Raiders! Raiders! Run for your lives!!!"
You boys would be the first to duck and cover and old johann_steele would find his breeches warm and wet.
Let me tell you a little story about Cole Younger and some of the boys.
Legend has it, back in the summer of 1863, Union Soldiers, if that's what you want to call 'em. Folks around these parts referred to 'em as no account low down no good back stabbin' liein' cheatin' steelin' drunk Yankee Redleg JayHawkers from Hell or Kansas. Had their way with some of the local Jackson county girls. Young God fearin' girls. Fresh off the farm.
Come to find out, one of them Redlegs was well know around Liberty. He was a big red headed guy with a lound mouth and some of the boys felt sure they could recognize him.
Well, Cole Younger and two other men waltzed into downtown Kansas City, Missouri one hot summer night. They walked right down in amongst 'em. Laughin' and jokin' and slappin' each other on the back. Kansas City weren't no Natchez-under-the-Hill, but for three good old boys from rural Missouri, it was tough enough. Yankee soldiers were drinkin' in nearly every saloon. It took the boys til nearly Midnight to find their man. When they did, he was siitin' behind a table plain' cards with three of his friends and five other Yankee boys were standin' around the place.
Our heros walked in and bought themselves a drink just like they owned the place. They looked around and made sure they had the right set of no goods in their sights and then Cole drug his finger across his cheek.
Blam! Ba-Da Blam! Blam!BLAM!
Three of them so-called cowards went up against nine of Lincoln's finest. It didn't take long. The boys were good at killin' and they had Just Cause.
They killed six more, gettin' outta town.
NO. Don't be castin' no disparagin' comments about them around me. I ain't havin' no more of it.
God gave them the light to see fit to fight however they saw fit and I reckon they did the best they could with what they had with 'em. Weather they was wearin' civilian clothes, Confederate Grey or Union Blue uniforms taken off of dead JayHawkers the night before.
The Guerillias get this OIJ..........were not saints. They the Jayhawkers, Redlegs were butchers and criminals. They are not the saviors of Southern virtue, States rights, Preservation of the Union, Abolition or any other grand nobel idea eithier side wants to aspire to.
Both sides burned, looted, raped, pillaged and murdered across the length and breadth of Missouri.
They were both full of cutthroats, ner'do wells, psychopaths, and opportunists.
No great deed was done by either side in irregular warfare in Missouri. Anderson and Lane. Jennison and Quantrill should have all hung from the same gallows.
ROFLMO, ever been to Northfield MN OIJ? Your finest... were weighed, measured and found wanting there by a handful of men who had worn the blue and haunted fields of battle like Antietem, Gettysburg, Chickamauga, Chatanooga, Atlanta, Allatoona and Appomotax facing real men on the other side of the line. You see it takes courage to stand in a line facing that enemy on the other side of the field. A kind of courage the men you admire so greatly sorely lacked.
A terrorist is a coward by the very nature of his operations and his targets. What you so eagerly describe as your ideal tactics and have revelled in on this thread is terrorism and cowardice at best. You spoke of lynching, murders, burning down abolishionist churches w/ the congregations inside... not the actions of brave men. And not the actions I would have expected from the real men who served in the CS Army. I rather suspect their opinions of those who would do such would not be... sympathetic. Thus the difference between soldiers and... poorly written fiction.
As to us "boys" being the first to be warm and wet in the britches neck of the woods... Judging from this thread I rather suspect your heroes would make certain our backs were turned before they opened up on any of them. That is the kind of courage I expect from those who would embrace the tactics of terrorists.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
The Guerillias get this OIJ..........were not saints. They the Jayhawkers, Redlegs were butchers and criminals. They are not the saviors of Southern virtue, States rights, Preservation of the Union, Abolition or any other grand nobel idea eithier side wants to aspire to.
Both sides burned, looted, raped, pillaged and murdered across the length and breadth of Missouri.
They were both full of cutthroats, ner'do wells, psychopaths, and opportunists.
No great deed was done by either side in irregular warfare in Missouri. Anderson and Lane. Jennison and Quantrill should have all hung from the same gallows.
Well said sir.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
You see it takes courage to stand in a line facing that enemy on the other side of the field. A kind of courage the men you admire so greatly sorely lacked.
Very true statement, BUT if you're the side with inferior numbers, it dooms your cause to failure. I really don't have a problem with the tactics as long as they are directed at uniformed soldiers, and in the West we know that is many times, not the case.
The US did employ guerilla tactics against the English in the revolution and while we also lined up in battle, if we had pursued only an 'English' style war, we'd still be independent, but our coins would have Queen Elizabeth on them!
No great deed was done by either side in irregular warfare in Missouri. Anderson and Lane. Jennison and Quantrill should have all hung from the same gallows.
Perhaps, but Anderson and Quantrill are made out to be villians, outlaws and the lowest of the low while Lane, a United States Senator and Jennison are praised and lauded and made out to be heros of the Republic and the progeny of General James G. Blunt rule in Missouri and Washington D.C. to this day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan_steele
That is the kind of courage I expect from those who would embrace the tactics of terrorists.
They use to ask my old Pap; "Why'd you shoot 'em in the back, John?" He always answered "Cause they was lookin' the other way!"
Last edited by Ozark Iron John; 09-23-2007 at 12:44 PM.
Ozark, those boys in blue ran all the way to Appomatox and then they stopped running.
For the life of me I cannot recall who here has praised Lane or others of that ilk. I think your paranoia is getting the best of you again. As to Anderson and Quantrill, they were the lowest of the low and frankly Forrest and other real soldiers thought so.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Very true statement, BUT if you're the side with inferior numbers, it dooms your cause to failure. I really don't have a problem with the tactics as long as they are directed at uniformed soldiers, and in the West we know that is many times, not the case.
The US did employ guerilla tactics against the English in the revolution and while we also lined up in battle, if we had pursued only an 'English' style war, we'd still be independent, but our coins would have Queen Elizabeth on them!
Those revolutionary war men were fighting British soldiers. What Ozark proposes so proudly in this thread is terrorism against unarmed civilians... frankly, I think the boy is off his meds again.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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