Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
I've been doing some reading recently about the Overland Campaign and the first battles between Grant and Lee, and I came to Spotsylvania and thought that it would make a good what if question for you guys to ponder over.
As some of you are aware, after the fighting in the Wilderness, Grant, instead of retreating, decided to go south and try and get between Lee and Richmond. As he was doing this, Lee's army was recovering from the heavy fighting of the past few days. Richard H. Anderson, in command of Longstreet's corps after the latter's wounding in the battle, took his men south to camp instead of having them try to rest in the burned out forest which still had burning pockets here and there. Inadvertently, not knowing that Grant was also heading south, he took his men to the outskirts of Spotslyvania Court House, beating Warren's corps by a couple of hours and securing the high ground for Army of Northern Virginia.
My what if is this: What if Anderson hadn't gone south to camp? What if they had stayed in the Wilderness and Grant had gotten to Spotsylvania first? He would have effectively been between Lee and Richmond. Do you think Lee would have attacked, and if so, could he have beaten Grant? We saw how Grant affaired against the Confederates dug in on the heights, suffering around 18,000 casualties. Could Lee have carried the heights? Have at it guys!!
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
I'll speculate with you and ask a question: What would keep Lee from pulling the same stunt as Grant -- swinging to his right and re-interposing himself between Grant and Richmond? Didn't he essentially do that when he raced Grant to the South Anna? As you might well note, I'm not versed on the campaign.
Would Lee have attacked? He had demonstrated on several occasions a preference to attack rather than maneuver. (I'm aware that he enjoyed a certain amount of success in such tactics.) Under the circumstances, I'd think he had enough sense to avoid an attack; after all, his army was but a shadow of what he had at Gettysburg. And his goal was different: protecting Richmond--not to make a political point or attempt to destroy the AoP.
Just a thought.
Ole
By the way, you make it sound like Anderson's reaching Spottsylvania first was inadvertent. I had understood (no depth, as I mentioned earlier) that the movement was a race on Lee's part. Perhaps I'm wrong in that?
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I had always thought that same thing, but I have begun to do some reading on the Overland Campaign, and it does seem that it was actually complete luck that the AoNV got there first. After the Battle of the Wilderness, Lee held his army in the Wilderness itself. He had sent Anderson slightly south, but not to Spotsylvania CH itself. Anderson could not find a suitable place to rest his men in the Wilderness, so he went ****her south and finally stopped at Spotsylvania. Meanwhile, Stuart's cavalry is trying to delay the Union advance as much as possible, and as they are fighting and falling back, they come to Laurel Hill and decided to make a stand. They learned that Anderson and his men were nearby and called on him for help. Thus, the Battle of Spotsylvania got underway.
I think Lee may have attacked, but I don't think he would have attacked a place like the Mule Shoe, if that kind of salient was dug by Grant's men. If he had, I think he would have looked for a weak spot in the lines, knowing he didn't have the men to waste in a frontal assault. If he hadn't found one, I think he would have just tried to go around Grant. Maybe he would try another flanking movement like Chancellorsville perhaps? Its a nice thought, but without a man like Jackson (who he was sorely missing) I don't think it would have worked.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
Lee would have fallen back further to guard Richmond. So long as it doesn't become a foot race, Lee would always interpose himself between Grant & Richmond. Lee would always look for an attack (which he would have done at the North Anna had his health not failed him) and Grant would always be looking for an opening.
Concerning the Mule Shoe, if Grant had created a salient with a vulnerable point, Lee certainly would have attacked. However, I would also credit Lee with trying a flank if one was open. The Mule Shoe though, was vulnerable because of engineering oversight. Upton's attack on May 10 proved it (though it was botched by VI Corps Commander Wright's poor coordination of Mott's supporting attack).
I wish you guys would stop bringing up things about which I know nothing. Adding two more books to the "to be read" stack. (Grumble, gripe, moan.)
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Lee would have fallen back further to guard Richmond. So long as it doesn't become a foot race, Lee would always interpose himself between Grant & Richmond. Lee would always look for an attack (which he would have done at the North Anna had his health not failed him) and Grant would always be looking for an opening.
Concerning the Mule Shoe, if Grant had created a salient with a vulnerable point, Lee certainly would have attacked. However, I would also credit Lee with trying a flank if one was open. The Mule Shoe though, was vulnerable because of engineering oversight. Upton's attack on May 10 proved it (though it was botched by VI Corps Commander Wright's poor coordination of Mott's supporting attack).
I think Lee learned his lesson about assaults on fixed position at Gettysburg. And if he didn't , he at least knew he no longer had an army large enough to sustain such an attack and exploit a break through. Grant's army was much larger, and even if Lee had broken through a weak spot, the sheer numbers of union soldiers ready to plug the whole would have overwhelmed Lee and pushed him right back out. Especially when you consider this is precisely what Lee did to Grant even though he was outnumbered. If the defending army had the advantage in numbers there is no way a smaller force would have sustained a break through.
Also.. didn't Grant try the flanks.. over and over?? I'm pretty sure Grant rotated around the position a complete 180 degrees throughout the entire battle. Constantly trying to flank but meet at just the right time and place so as to prevent a flanking maneuver. With Grant's superiority in numbers, he wouldn't have even had to strip troops form one flank to guard the other, he would have had enough to guard all flanks without weakening any positions.
With Grant now firmly between Lee and Richmond, Lee would be obliged to attack if he couldn't avoid battle altogether and sneak away to get between Grant and Richmond again. I'd have to look at the maps again, but I'm sure he could have found a way. But if not he would be forced to attack a much larger force in a fixed position and probably lose half his army in the process... and still would not be able to dislodge the enemy.
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
In 1864 I think Lee's army doesn't have much vigor left in it for attack. Sitting on the North Ana Lee is in a V with two Federal wings on either side of him and he can concentrate on one, use interior lines and then strike the other. But the Confederates are really in no position to do anything about it. So, if Grant wins the race, I don't think Lee assaults, I think he tries to go around.
In 1864 I think Lee's army doesn't have much vigor left in it for attack. Sitting on the North Ana Lee is in a V with two Federal wings on either side of him and he can concentrate on one, use interior lines and then strike the other. But the Confederates are really in no position to do anything about it. So, if Grant wins the race, I don't think Lee assaults, I think he tries to go around.
Regards, cw, (did I welcome you to the board?) The "V" has its merits, but it is also a point of potential weakness. If attacked on both sides, the defender can put only half his force on a side --reducing available firepower to resist an attack. Against vastly superior numbers, the V is effective only against probes in force.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Lee's V at the North Anna was more of a trap for Grant to fall into. And it almost worked. However, Lee was too sick to move the troops and his trap failed. Grant dug in and Lee knew that there was nothing that he would be able to do to defeat Grant once he was dug in as well. Grant had double Lee's forces, and I don't think Lee would have been able to do anything against Grant once he was dug in.
The thing with the Overland Campaign was that Grant was trying to draw Lee out into a open battle, on ground where he could decimate Lee with his superior numbers. Grant did not want to fight from intrenchments. Lee constantly confounded his plans though. If Grant had been able to get Lee out into open ground to fight, the war would probably have ended much sooner. But both sides, by 1864, had realized that standing in the open and fighting was rather pointless and just got a lot of men killed.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
Even if Lee springs his trap at North Anna and mauls a flank of the Army of the Potomac, I don't think he does anything worse to Grant than Grant does to himself at Cold Harbor. The problem with the Civil War is that the attacks cause just as much grief to the attackers, so how to follow up?
Grant and Sherman seem to have it pretty much figured out, the Federals have the numbers and there just aren't enough Confederates to form the type of trench system you see in WWI from English Channel to Swiss border, so you see Sherman and Grant always extending their line beyond the point the Confederates can comfortably cover. At times, in my head is Bentonville, the Federals have a smaller fraction of the Army exposed, and the same pattern seems to emerge, the Confederate attack is difficult to coordinate to begin with, an engagement ensues with heavy casualties and nothing profitable comes of it.
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What if...Grant Won the Race to Spotsylvania? 
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