Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
What if Jeb Stuart and his cavalry had been in touch with Lee all the time during the 1863 invasion of the North, providing his army with information on the whereabouts and the movements of the Union Army. Would the Battle of Gettysburg have been fought or would the battle have taken place somewhere else?
Interesting "what if," Ter61. Lee wouldn't have minded tangling with the AotP on ground of his choosing. As things happened, he didn't get to choose. As is normal in mass movements, his army was fragmented -- caught in the middle of piddling about in preparation for concentrating in an as yet undetermined point.
Lee got caught up in a blind spot. By the time he found out that the AotP was moving more quickly than he anticipated, the die had been cast. Without blaming Stuart for his inability to inform Lee of developments, I'd guess that Lee would have, had he known, pulled together his forces and set up a confrontation in the passes through the mountains. Meade would have had to attempt to drive him out. However, in a day or two, Lee would have had to get out of Dodge because of his supply situation.
The battle, if there was a battle, would have been fought somewhere else -- or at Gettysburg with the AoNV on Cemetary Ridge. But "it" happens. With or without Stuart, Lee was in an untenable position.
Just a thought.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
...most historians had explained where Stuart was between June 25, 1863 and July 2, 1863. More students might have asked the question, did Lee attempt too much with too few troops.
...most historians had explained where Lee's troops were on June 28, 1863, one might understand the problem Lee was facing.
...most historians had explained where Lee's cavalry was situated from June 25 to June 28, 1863, it might explain why Lee got his information on Army of the Potomac later than expected. Had Lee expected too little of the Army of the Potomac, underestimating its general?
...most historians ever raised a question if Lee had underestimated the enemy and overestimated his early decisions. Such as leaving Stuart behind to guard gaps in the Blue Ridge Mountains and not then travel with the infantry corps?
most historians ever raised a question if Lee had underestimated the enemy and overestimated his early decisions. Such as leaving Stuart behind to guard gaps in the Blue Ridge Mountains and not then travel with the infantry corps?
Remember that Stuart's operations were not limited to guarding gaps. In fact, Stuart left two of his brigades under Longstreet who then implemented them in the gaps of the Blue Ridge. Stuart was attempting to divert enemy attention by moving around the AofP and intending to link up with Ewell somewhere near York.
But, assuming that Stuart stays with the ANV, I think you'll see a successful capture of Harrisburg. With the cavalry, Lee will have a consistent understanding of where the enemy is. The cavalry will also allow for better aquisition of supplies which will help maintain the campaign in Pennsylvania.
__________________ Ancestors in the 28th, 38th, 46th, 59th and 22nd Btn. Virginia Infantry and 2nd Virginia Cavalry.
If Stuart had turned 'left' instead of 'right' then it is unlikely that there would have been a major battle at Gettysburg.
Part of the plan of newly minted Army Commander Gen. Meade, was to concentrate his army, at Pipe Creek in the expectation that a concentration of the AoP would automatically draw Lee towards him. IMO that was a correct expectation. As Stuart reported on the concentration at Pipe Creek, Lee would have been drawn to do battle with the AoP, after all one of the major reasons for his being in Pa. in the first place was to defeat a major Union Force on northern soil.
Would Lee cross the susquehanna, without his pontoon train, with the AoP concentrating in his rear?
Also, Federal Cavalry had been reconstituted into a real fighting force by Hooker and was active and aggressive, Stuart would have his hands full screening the ANV movements.
After, Gettysburg, Meade and Lee maneuvered against each other in Northern Va, without coming to major blows. Both armies had been hurt at Gettysburg and Meade was a less than confident army commander, but Lee could not bring on a battle with any confidence of victory even with Stuart. The war in that area became so stagnant that a desperate Davis was confident enough to be able to sent Longstreet and his corps West.
Whatever his deficiencies in mental attitude, Meade was a competent and careful Army Commander, with an active and competent cavalry force of his own, it would seem unlikely that Lee would have been able maneuver, Meade into a disadvantageouls position, in the limited time available to him (Lee could not stay in Pa. forever, as Meade well knew)
The only problem, Meade would have have had, would be Lincoln and Stanton on his back calling for a decisive battle (while protecting D.C AND/Or Baltimore, of course). However, historical evidence shows that Meade was able to avoid doing what his Commander in Chief wanted him to do, almost indefinitely.
It is likely that Lee would have had to take the initiative and attacked Meade or eventually beat an ignominious retreat from Pa. without defeating the AoP.
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
is dang few historians ever read Stuart's Gettysburg report and realized what Lee overlooked. Or ignored!
Some was the lack of enough Confederate cavalry to do assigned tasks; how Lee used his cavalry, and the fact Lee assumed Stuart would cross the Potomac River before its namesake army.
How many on this site ever read Stuart's report on the Gettysburg campaign?
Was it in Stuart's OR that he mentions that one of the Cavalry Brigades left with Lee (Imboden's?) had the specific task of scouting for and locating the AoP? The inference being, that if Lee misused the available cavalry (2/3's of the whole force) assigned to him, then Lee must be at fault.
is dang few historians ever read Stuart's Gettysburg report and realized what Lee overlooked. Or ignored!
Some was the lack of enough Confederate cavalry to do assigned tasks; how Lee used his cavalry, and the fact Lee assumed Stuart would cross the Potomac River before its namesake army.
How many on this site ever read Stuart's report on the Gettysburg campaign?
I've read it several times over the past few years, and expect to have read it again as I read Wittenbert and Petruzzi's "Plenty of Blame to Go Around-Jeb Stuart's Controversial Ride to Gettysburg", after returning home from June Muster in Tenn.
One problem I see with his ride relating to Lee:
Stuart took his most experienced officers with him, which, considering the danger to his forces, I can see as acceptable.
However, this left his Less reliable officers to screen the right flank of the army, and, possibly, part of this force moved much to slow, not keeping in contact with the Union army, when they would have been able to notify Lee of its movements. But then, I could be wrong.
Hopefully, when I finish this book I'll understand what, and how, events played out, better.
whitworth...If anything, what more you see as Lee overlooking, besides..... hindsight?
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Jeb Stuart during the invasion 
Ancestors in the 28th, 38th, 46th, 59th and 22nd Btn. Virginia Infantry and 2nd Virginia Cavalry. 
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