Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
I like to think about what a 19th century person would think about certain things if he suddenly awoke and found himself in todays world. This is especially true for 19th century soldiers given today's soldiers gear... I think culture comparison/contrast is always a good/fun way to learn.
So, some opinions on what 19th century soldier would think if he fell off his horse was knocked completely out and awoke in the (fairly) new Army Combat Uniform!
I think the first thing he'd say is "Where is the jacket?" Followed closly by extreme approval of the footwear.
your thoughts?
I couldn't decide where to post this thread, it is a "what if", but not really in the way most "what ifs" are...
The CW soldier would heartily approve of anything that made him more comfortable -- especially the shoes. It is doubtful that he'd figure out the purpose of the body armor, or how to operate an M-60. He'd probably play with the grenades and do himself serious harm.
I suspect he wouldn't like the helmet and wouldn't appreciate the battle-rattle that went with the ACU.
On the other hand, he'd recognize the M-60 as some sort of musket, maybe equate the body armor with those chest plates that flopped early in the war, and he might recognize the grenade for what it is, but he wouldn't know how to light it.
Best of all, he would love the MREs -- expecially those that heat themselves, if he could figure out how to prepare them.
Interesting question, Tommy, might get some fun out of speculation.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
It wouldn't take some ole boy long to figure it out. A rifle is a rifle, just operates different. Might take to the body armor once he figured out it would save lives. You notice, we still issue a bayonet, no adjustment there. The problem would be with his officers adapting to the new fire power. There would have been no Picket's charge, or the AOT at Franklin doing a frontal assault.
I remember when I first saw my first set of woodlands pattern cammo BDUs. That was in Hawaii in '83-'84?
We were outside, sitting at a picnic table shaded by some trees, when a guy came up wearing them and we were all commenting and questioning is the cammo pattern would work or not. In the middle of our verbal discourse a bird flew up and tried to land on the guy in the woodlands cammo BDUs (the rest of us were in the standard olive drab fatigues at the time). The bird then realized it's mistake and flew off, chirpping like mad.
That convinced us.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
UNIONBLUE, Went to function at Camp Pendleton not long ago and was given a tour. Four of us old Nam infantry Marines. Looked at the equipment these Marines carry today, made me feel as if I had been in Ceasers Legions. But in the end it still take a warrior with some guts to close with and destroy the enemy.
Yep, the kids got a lot of new toys and new outfits.
But it takes good old guts and courage to do what a groundpounder, PBI, leatherneck, etc., has had to do with a spear, club, musket or M4.
Take the ground and hold it.
And that means you still have to close with that enemy, dealing with your fear and doing your utmost not to let your buddies down.
God Bless 'em all.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
And that is what they did, the Blue and the Gray. When my time comes, I hope to sit with those brave men and discuss life, the ladies, and the crossing of open fields.
And that is what they did, the Blue and the Gray. When my time comes, I hope to sit with those brave men and discuss life, the ladies, and the crossing of open fields.
Pinckney
Gentlemen; Amen. I'm amazed at how much the uniform and gear has changed since I got out just a couple three years ago.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
How would a modern-day soldier do donning Civil War wool, carrying Civil War gear, and marching to Civil War manuvers and drill?
I can tell you how it went for me. I retired in '91 and started CW reenacting in '93 and I was totally LOST!
I went to my first 'drill' at the Ohio Historical Village and thought I would have no problem. After all, I was just retired from the Army, and my last assignment was with the 10th Mountain Infantry Division, so I know how to march, drill and all my facing movements. And how hard could it be to shoot a musket?
Friends, I completely screwed up my first drill, from my marching to my facing movements. I had no idea even to do such a basic move as 'about face.' I was completely mortified at my stumbling and fumbling. And this was the least of my problems.
Putting on the sky-blue wool pants with suspenders (or braces as they were called) was a strange experience and trying to remember my pull over four button shirt had to go on first before the braces and pants made for a challenge for a time. Then the dark blue, wool, four button sack coat with forage cap completed my 19th century sweatsuit. God! How did those boys do it?
Buckling on my leathers (belt, cartridge box, cap box, bayonet scabbard) and positioning those items just so I could use them in simulated combat was another lesson in fumbling and groping. Then you tin canteen and black tarred canvas haversack to carry your rations in.
Next came my knapsack, wool blanket, rubber blanket, straps and how the heck do you sling this thing on your back without the blanket pulling away from you body and cutting off all the blood in you arms, neck, shoulders and brain? (There is a trick to it which I finally was shown by a more experienced friend.) Oh! And don't forget to pack extra socks, paper and pencil, dog tent half, tabbacco, matches, etc., and carry it all with you.
Add to all of this that you wear wool socks, leather brogans, button fly and only two front pockets in your pants and you begin to realize that anyone in the modern military doesn't have gripe one about their personal gear or uniform.
Then try to eat real salt port and hardtack and drink coffee from roasting your own green coffee beans yourself (over an open campfire) and then pour hot water over them and then drink around the beans? You're kidding, right? (Don't ever complain to me about 'mystery meat' in the messhall ever again. MREs are heaven compared to typical CW fare.)
As for loading and firing the 1861 Springfield .58 cal. musket in nine, distinct, separate steps before getting off one round and then having to fire three rounds in one minute? Standing in the open, under fire, in a long line with my fellow Union soldiers? Give me my old M-16, BDUs and kevlar and a rock or tree anytime!
My hat's off to those guys, blue and gray. I do it for a weekend with only blanks to worry about. They went out for four, long, terrible years, faced death and disease and everything in between.
Ordinary people who lived through extraordinary times and did amazing extraordinary things.
That's why they are my heroes.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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