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Civil War History - "What if..." Discussions What if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!

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  #1  
Old 04-25-2006, 06:40 PM
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Default If the Union Army had Breachloaders in 1862

From a book I am reading: Lincoln and the Tools of War by Robert V. Bruce:

".... But if a large part of the Union Army had been given breachloaders by late 1862, Gettysburg would certainly ended the war. More likely Chancellorsville or even Fredericksburg would have done it, and history would record no Gettysburg Address, no President Grant, perhaps no carpetbag reconstruction or Solid South. Instead, it might have had the memoirs of ex-President Lincoln, perhaps written in retirement during the administration of President Burnside or Hooker."

What do you all think?
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:31 PM
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Joe Bilby just wrote a book on it. He mentions the tactical victories conferred to the Union because of their use but points out that no strategic outcome was changed because of them.

Remember that before the war, the European theorists were arguing that with the minie rifle, engagements would begin at about 800 yards and to close the distance would be folly. A wiser school believed that only select troops would engage at that distance and most men would fight at closer ranges. The long range potential of the rifle musket was never really appreciated and there's a good reason.

While weapons affects tactics, it takes a while before tactics are developed that take advantage of a new weapon and its potential. The basic manual was either Hardee or Casey - both of which relied heavily on linear tactics. While soldiers by late 1863 learned to entrench themselves almost immediately, linear formation was still being used for a long time (recall the charge of the 1st Maine Heavy Artillery at Petersburg).

So, having the weapon is one thing. Knowing how to use it to maximize its effectiveness is another. If you would like to read more, pick up Bilby's book or study Wilder's Lightning Brigade (Spencer Armed mounted infantry).
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:19 PM
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Default Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary
So, having the weapon is one thing. Knowing how to use it to maximize its effectiveness is another.
True, but some weapons are so dominant (and demoralizing to the enemy) that even inappropriately employed they exert a huge influence on the outcome of battles... campaigns... and wars.
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:34 PM
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I'd guess the soldier would learn pretty darned quick how to use it!
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Old 04-26-2006, 09:43 PM
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This book says Lincoln took a great interest in a variety of new ideas for armaments, and that he frequently went out from the White House grounds to test shoot such rifles as the Sharps breachloaders and the Spenser repeaters. Allegedly he was a pretty god shot.
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Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf

Ancestors in CSA Army: 2nd TN Inf (Walker's), 9th TN Cav (Bennett's/Ward's); 2nd TX Inf
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Old 04-27-2006, 09:57 AM
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Every modern piece of military hardware changed warfare. The Battle of Hampton Roads made every wooden ship obsolete. Iron hulls and gun turrets are on every warship today. What could have been a real problem for the south would have been earlier development of the machine gun but metallic cartridges and the tooling to build them had not advanced enough to make them totally reliable. But wars are fought with the tools at hand.
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:33 PM
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Default If the Union Army had Breachloaders in 1862?

"If the Union Army had Breachloaders in 1862"
Correct me if I'm wrong but they did have Breech-Loaders in 1862.
In September of 1853 sixty sharps carbines were put onboard various Navy ships. In 1856 the 2nd Dragoons received 250 Sharps model 1855 carbines. During the first year and a half of the war Connecticut purchased nearly 1,500 NM 1859 Sharps rifles directly from the factory which were issued to the 1st and 2nd Conn. Vol. Inf. who used them at first manassas.
By the end of May 1862 2,000 Berdan's Sharps rifles had been delivered to the 1st and 2nd US sharpshooters.
Two companies of the 5th NY were outfitted with sharps rifles in June of 62 plush other regiments were receiving Sharps rifles.
The breakdown acording to Coates & McAulay's book is by December 1862 more than 60% of all breech-loading carbines in the field were sharps. The December 31, 1862 list of ordnance stores in the hands of the cavalry alone shows 13,600 Sharps carbines; 1,900 Smiths; 500 Gwyn and Campbells; 900 Gallagers; 1,040 Merrills; 1,900 Halls; and 900 Burnsides carbines.
As a side note on the confederate side,
In November of 1860 the state of Georgia contacted the Sharps company to purchase 2,000 of it's patent rifled carbines. By Dec. 18 Gov. Brown reported thet 1,600 had been delivered and were in state storage. The remaining 400 were not delivered but were replaced with the same number of Sharps rifles from a broker in NY city. The state of Virginia had purchased 50 Sharps rifles plus additional sharps rifles from other sources and by the fall of 1861 over 130 had been issued to various militia units.
Breech-loaders were out there and in the hands of the soldiers especially the union army. They just weren't in appreciable enough numbers on the front line to make the kind of difference you'd expect.
Just my 2cents worth.
-Karl F.
5th NY
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:51 PM
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Absolutely on the money, Karl. They were there. However... (isn't there always a however?) They were more expensive than the muzzle loader. They couldn't be supplied in the numbers required. And there was a mind-set against them in the hide-bound military system of the time -- something about careless firing and wasting ammunition and god-cursed newfangled geegaws.

There was some truth to that attitude. What the old folks neglected to consider was that soldiers could be trained to use faster-firing weapons. There was one example (please don't ask me to find it) of a regiment being issued Spencer's without the appropriate training. They ran through their ammo supply in minutes and negated any efffectiveness they might have had.

Just a thought. By the way, an excellently researched post.
Ole
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:55 AM
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Default Breech-Loaders

Yes Ole, your exactly right
"careless firing and wasting ammunition and god-cursed newfangled geegaws."
And I personally feel this (politicians) had more to do with it than is recorded.
i.e. Teddy Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun!
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Old 06-10-2006, 08:58 PM
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As mentioned earlier Wilder's brigade was a great example of the repeating rifle being effective. However, just look at Knoxville and see how Longstreet's overcame the repeaters becuase they were not aimed. It does not matter fast you can load if you don't aim. How many battles were most of the bullets shot hitting above the men in the trees.
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