Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
Kindly inform me who was the opposition in the CS election of Jeff Davis. Voter returns, political slogans etc... whoops Davis wasn't elected was he? So much for a CS democracy eh?
Do you really believe this?
Where do you come up with this stuff?
Jefferson Davis was elected President of the Provisional Government of the Confederate States in 1861 by members of the Constitutional Convention. He did not seek the office...but was a compromise candidate.
In 1862 he was re-elected as President of the Permanent Government by electors (the same process as in the United States) .
These electors were chosen by popular vote (Election of 6 November 1861).
Ballots-
Virginia
Tennessee
In the last years of the war Davis became very unpopular in certain circles...but that was not the case in 1861-
The Confederacy had been in existence for only a matter of months. Not enough time for any opposition party to form...much less nominate a candidate.
(George Washington also ran unopposed and was elected unanimously...for much of the same reasons- popularity and no opposition party.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan
Jefferson Davis by Cooper
Jefferson Davis, Constitutionalist: his letters Papers & Speeches by himself
Jefferson Davis, Ex President of the Confederate States of America, A Memoir by his wife
Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government by himself
Jefferson Davis, The Man & His Hour by William Davis
...He was appointed to his first and last political position through IMO backstage political manuevering.
"first [?] and last political position"......What?
If you had read any of those books you list you would have found out he was a Senator and elected to other political offices prior to the war.
"Scapegoat", I think means a person who is blamed unfairly for an occurence, incident, etc, that failed, among other things. IMO Davis was a large part of the failure of the Confederacy to win its independence. His uncompromising, rigid views on certain elements, such as his strong likes and dislikes of certain generals, favoritism to some, decapitation (figuratively) for others, regardless of their level of competency on the field of battle, was just one of his idiosyncracies that helped doom the Confederacy.
Terry
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
Do you really believe this? If I didn't believe it why would I say it?
Where do you come up with this stuff?By reading... sometimes too much.
Jefferson Davis was elected President of the Provisional Government of the Confederate States in 1861 by members of the Constitutional Convention. He did not seek the office...but was a compromise candidate. Everything he had done up to this point in his life pointed to a target of the presidency... CS presidency certainly filled the bill.
In 1862 he was re-elected as President of the Permanent Government by electors (the same process as in the United States) . Who ran against him? Did he have an opponent? No.
In the last years of the war Davis became very unpopular in certain circles...but that was not the case in 1861-
The Confederacy had been in existence for only a matter of months. Not enough time for any opposition party to form...much less nominate a candidate.
(George Washington also ran unopposed and was elected unanimously...for much of the same reasons- popularity and no opposition party.)
"first [?] and last political position"......What?
A one party ticket... I can understand how he received a unanimous vote. Lets see choice between Jeff Davis and... Jeff Davis; well at least no one had to ponder who was going to win the popular vote.
In 1847 his first term he was appointed to fill a vacant Senate seat by the governor of Mississipi. Aka Appointed... much like his rise to the presidency of the CS. he was elected to other positions after he was appointed to a vacant Senate seat and before his CS presidency thus equaling Appointed to his first and last.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
If you had read any of those books you list you would have found out he was a Senator and elected to other political offices prior to the war.
Actually I have read all (or as much as I could stand) of them... and I failed to check Amazon.com consumer reports to make certain they were legit works. If you need to read them I might suggest your local library they should all be easily available through interlibrary loan and my local Half Price Books even had a vintage copy of his memoirs. Out of my price range.
Now if you are suggesting that simply because I have a different opinion than you I could not have read any of those works... Again I believe I am allowed an opinion that might not fall in line with yours.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Manpower and resources in Dixie were so much less than were available to the North.
I think that manpower and manufacturing capabilities were more important than leadership. (True as a general principle, I think, unless the leader is exceptionally gifted or exceptionally incompetent.) I believe both men did fairly well with what they had available. Neither was perfect, of course.
__________________ Chaplain Rob Stroud, USAF Son of SgtMaj Chuck Stroud, USMC Grandson of Private Charles Stroud, USA Great-Grandson of Corporal Chauncey Stroud, Fifth Iowa Volunteer Cavalry
It should go without saying that although I am a proud member of the military, my posts in no way reflect the official policies of the USAF or the United States government.
....In 1847 his first term he was appointed to fill a vacant Senate seat by the governor of Mississipi. Aka Appointed... much like his rise to the presidency of the CS. he was elected to other positions after he was appointed to a vacant Senate seat and before his CS presidency thus equaling Appointed to his first and last.
False.
He was elected to the House of Representatives (Twenty-ninth Congress) and served from March 1845 to June 1846, when he resigned to serve in the Mexican War.
He was appointed to the Senate August 1847 (to replace Sen. Speight who had died in office).
He took his seat in December 1847 and was elected the following month (January 1848) to serve the remainder of the term.
After serving as Sec. of War he was again elected to the Senate and served from March 1857 to January 1861 when he resigned.
He was elected President of the Confederate States (Provisional Government) by the members of the Constitutional Convention in February 1861. Davis was not present at the Convention...he was not seeking the office.
The votes were cast by states. Representatives of six states (of 7) were present. All voted for Davis.
He was re-elected the following year...which in the process included a popular vote.
*
So in his entire political career stretching a period of 20 years (1845 to 1865)......
...he served A SINGLE MONTH as an appointed representative.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan
...I express moral outrage at purposeful or accidental inaccuracies and try and correct them....It isn't a matter of making an issue of something trivial....it is a matter of noting errors that are quite blatant to me and misleading to others.
Please apply the same rules to your own statements....
The Confederacy was unprepared for war. Jefferson Davis by his military experience was the best pick of the Confederacy. Most of the best civilian leaders were part of the Slave Oligarchy, which made them distinctly unprepared for war, saddled by "states rights", slaves and industrial impotency.
The Confederates had cotton, slaves and arrogance as was aptly expressed in the book, 'Gone With The Wind".
None of its civilian leadership had a clue how to go from unpreparedness to a wartime economy. In many respects, a wartime economy violated the principles of the Confederate Constitution.
The Confederate soldier had valor. The Confederate government had incompetence.
He was elected to the House of Representatives (Twenty-ninth Congress) and served from March 1845 to June 1846, when he resigned to serve in the Mexican War.
He was appointed to the Senate August 1847 (to replace Sen. Speight who had died in office).
He took his seat in December 1847 and was elected the following month (January 1848) to serve the remainder of the term.
After serving as Sec. of War he was again elected to the Senate and served from March 1857 to January 1861 when he resigned.:
I will apologize for an error here. You are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
He was elected President of the Confederate States by the members of the Constitutional Convention in February 1861. Davis was not present at the Convention...he was not seeking the office.
The votes were cast by states. Representatives of six states (of 7) were present. All voted for Davis.
He was re-elected the following year...which in the process included a popular vote.
Once again, I will ask who ran against him? One candidate is not an election or even a choice and has absolutely nothing to do w/ self determination.
Once again I will stand by my statement that a one candidate election... is very convenient. I do not believe that he did no politicking for the position; call it a gut feeling gleaned from too much reading about the man and being too cynical...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Please apply the same rules to your own statements....
...and have a nice day
I have. I have made mistakes before and noted and corrected them when they have been pointed out to me. I do apply the same rules to my own statements and mistakes. I expect the same from others but am usually disappointed...
You to should have a nice day.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Again I'm just asking for info:
Weren't senators appointed by state legislatures at this time? It's somewhat more democratic then that, got to look it up. I know when reading about the Lincoln-Douglas debates, the author made the point the voters weren't directly electing their senator.
On another topic:
When we talk about switching presidents, Lincoln's rougher, downhome, rail splitter image worked with Northerners, while Davis's gentlemanly style went down well with Southerners. Just in terms of personal style, would Davis and Lincoln be bad fits if the posts were reversed? Jackson and Taylor had rough images, and it seemed to work for them with Southern voters, while its harder to find someone colder then John Q. Adams.
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