Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
What if Lincoln had followed the advice of some of his cabinet and had pulled out the troops manning Ft. Sumter and Ft. Pickens before any hostile actions had taken place?
Curious,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
The shots would have been fired elsewhere. One of the Forts in Florida or an incident w/ the Regulars withdrawing from Texas. Ft. Sumter was merely the first place hostile activity was followed by shots from a cannon... The Regulars in Texas very nearly had several fights on their hands during their evacuation. That there were no shooting incidents is a testiment to the professionalism.
All that was needed was a spark... it wasn't going to take much.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
No hope that with no firing that the Upper South and Lincoln could have exerted political and economic pressure to bring the Deep South back into the Union fold? Restraint may have caused the desired effect instead of a call for 75,000 troops?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I don't think so. The Regulars that were forced to surrender in Texas surrendered to vastly superior numbers of militia. I think Confederate govt had all the hotheads on their side, cooler minds never did seem to prevail there. The CSA wanted Kentucky w/in their fold VERY badly to the point that they invaded the neutral state. I think if the War hadn't started at Ft. Sumter the powder keg might have gone off in Kentucky.
There were also the forts at Key West and other Strategic posts that the Union wasn't willing to give up. Again if it hadn't been Ft Sumter it would have been elsewhere.
It took two years for the blockade to start being felt in the CSA and political pressure I think wouldn't have worked. Most of the Secessh members of our govt had headed South, the Army had been emasculated by the sheer number of Officers who resigned commisions.
That's just my two cents worth.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Pretty much the way I feel too, but sometimes you can get some pretty interesting angles when you field a question like this. And the Fort in Key West, I thought, or the one major one left besides Sumter was Fort Pickens in Florida. Wrong, or was there some other forts I don't know about?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Fort Pulaski? I think in Savannah? Someone please correct me on this, because I'm not sure I have the location correct- anyway, another fort that, I believe was in Federal hands at the time Sumter was bombarded.
I wonder if there was a fort at St Augustine, Florida. Anyone know?
Anyway, possible places that might have been the starting point if Sumter had been abandoned.
But what if ALL federal forts in the South had been abandoned? What then? What if Lincoln had followed the advice of some of his advisors and NOT called up troops? Any chance of a peaceful settlement with the Deep South left hanging in the wind?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I think if Lincoln hadn't called up troops he would have seen a CSA flag floating over his capital. Regulars in Texas barely made it out of the state w/out facing a fighting withdrawel.
I don't believe Lincoln ever intended to give up the forts at Key West. How could he? It was bad enough that he was giving up countless forts and armories that the Union ha dpayed for... not just Southern states.
THe CSA attempted at least three major invasions of the Eastern Union and three in the west... all were decisevly defeated but they were attempted nonetheless. It could be argued that Lincoln was working off of his own experiances as a youth w/ the BlackHawk War. Bargain w/ an Army at your back or expect to get scalped. I've never understood the point of bargaining from a position of weakness.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Again, I understand where you are coming from, but before shots were fired at Sumter, there was a lot of talk, quite a bit of talk, that the Deep South States were really playing out a bluff and had no intention of going toe to toe with the North, if they could not bring most of the Upper South with them (Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, etc.).
The contention was, and not only in the South, but the North too, that without anyone to fight, the rebellion in the Deep South would have spluttered to a stop with most of the Upper South remaining loyal to the Union and then shaming the rest of the Southern States back into same.
Thoughts on that take?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
