Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
Hard to say if for all his fighting qualities he was enough of an administrator to understand the entire enchilada of tactics and logistics of commanding all the wings of the army.
Good point Spartan. Forrest was a loose cannon -- very dangerous to have in your neighborhood. Seems he was most effective charging around the countryside terrorizing garrisons and nervous generals. In command of a division or corps, I think he would have been beyond his competence and his singular talent would have been wasted.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Forrest proved he was capable of command during the retreat from Tennessee in December 1864. Unfortunately, as has been stated previously in this thread, the Confederacy could not have supported him.
My own opinion, is that I think Forrest, if given the chance, would have done a pretty decent job in command of an entire army. Of course we'll never know, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt here. Too many people, mostly those fellows dressed in blue, underestimated Forrest, and discovered, usually under unpleasant circumstances, just how smart, cunning, and shrewd a leader he was. He was a born leader, respected and admired by his men, throughout the war, much unlike Bragg, and more so than Joe Johnston even. How far he could have gone leading the AOT, one can only speculate, but I sure wouldn't sell him short.
Terry
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
My own opinion, is that I think Forrest, if given the chance, would have done a pretty decent job in command of an entire army. Of course we'll never know, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt here. Too many people, mostly those fellows dressed in blue, underestimated Forrest, and discovered, usually under unpleasant circumstances, just how smart, cunning, and shrewd a leader he was. He was a born leader, respected and admired by his men, throughout the war, much unlike Bragg, and more so than Joe Johnston even. How far he could have gone leading the AOT, one can only speculate, but I sure wouldn't sell him short.
One point at a time, here."My own opinion, is that I think Forrest, if given the chance, would have done a pretty decent job in command of an entire army. Of course we'll never know, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt here."No way. Forrest didn't know doodly about supplying an army. His forte was taking what he needed from whomever happened to be close by. If it was a Union garrison, he got weapons and supplies. If it was the countryside, he got food and forage. This does not add up to an ability to requisition, stockpile and efficiently use the current setup.
And that seems to be the last point. Forrest was exceptionally capable as a fighting commander of a constantly moving force. To pin him to the logistics required of an army is to assign to him talents he didn't manifest. He was certainly capable of learning the procedures, but he proved himself incapable of conforming to them.
Forrest was Forrest. He was a constant threat as an feared unknown in Union plans anywhere in his territory. That was about the extent of his effectiveness. No one on the Union side made plans without knowing where Forrest was. There was his value.
Olw
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Ole. I think he would have made a fine commander of the AOT.
Terry
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Ole. I think he would have made a fine commander of the AOT.
Terry
Nonsense! You'll have to come up with better than, "he would have made a fine commander of the AoT." He was great at what he did. Put him into the real army and he was a land shark. Justification for your opinion please
Respectfully,
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Ole. I think he would have made a fine commander of the AOT.
Terry
I think Ole very effectively expands on my more delicate doubts of Forrest's capacity to handle ALL vital aspects of leading an army, much less running a corps. To the point, that is the logistical management of the Army, and the evidence suggests Forrest was found wanting in this area of responsibility. That does not diminish his talents for fighting and I would be quite satisfied to make him my cavalry chief over the pompous showboater Stuart.
I too welcome further support of your position william.
As I stated in my post it's my opinion that he would have made a fine commander of the AOT. I'll go further and say that I think he would have surprised a lot of people with his competency, and extraordinary leadership qualities, had he been given the chance to command that army. It's an opinion guys. I'm entitled to it, as you are yours, and, by the way, I'm under no obligation to provide any justification for it, but I did because you asked. If I were claiming it to be a fact, then, of course I would need to "justify" calling it a fact. Obviously you disagree with my opinion. That's ok with me. I've posted my "justification" for my opinion above. If it's not to your satisfaction, then, that's ok with me, too.
Terry
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
No justification on my part william, ,just curious to hear your expansion of your thoughts as to his fitness for command at the army level. A divergence of opinion is what makes this forum very interesting and challenging. Respectfully, Spartan
As I stated in my post it's my opinion that he would have made a fine commander of the AOT. I'll go further and say that I think he would have surprised a lot of people with his competency, and extraordinary leadership qualities, had he been given the chance to command that army.
C'mon William, you can't say that you think he would have made a fine commander without saying why you think so. I've given that his qualities singled him out as extraordinary, and I'll give you that extraordinary did well for more than a few who rose to major command. Forrest's "extraordinary: did not extend in that direction.
Quote:
It's an opinion guys. I'm entitled to it, as you are yours, and, by the way, I'm under no obligation to provide any justification for it, but I did because you asked. If I were claiming it to be a fact, then, of course I would need to "justify" calling it a fact. Obviously you disagree with my opinion. That's ok with me. I've posted my "justification" for my opinion above. If it's not to your satisfaction, then, that's ok with me, too.
Quite true. It's an opinion, as was mine and Spartan's. But I'm going to take yours and beat you severiously about the head and shoulders with it.
Common history gives Forrest a place among the 10 most popular names in the WBTS. He earned it through action and mythology. He can have it. Mythology counts. But he never, ever, demonstrated that he was capable of working within the AoT to accomplish its goals with anything beyond annoying the bejesus out of the AotT.
Respectfully submitted,
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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