Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
Gunsmoke, I kinda see it the same way. The biggest what if question, what if the South had won the war? Would slavery have ended or died out as many on this board claim? Or would it continue and still exist in the 20th century?
What if questions make you learn more about your subject, make you but your cherished heroes and their ideas on trial, and most importantly, make you THINK!
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Unionblue, I've given thought to that question several times.
The civil war, started in the infancy, of the industrial revolution. One of the things, that greatly increased, the need for more slave labor, was the invention, of the cotton gin. The cotton gin, made it easier to separate, the seeds, from a variety of cotton, that was almost impossible, to seed, by hand. Also this cotton plant would grow much easier, and in a wider variety of places. If the south had won the war, I believe the industrial revolution, would have continued, but at a slower pace. Still, as farm machinery would be invented, it would have taken the place of the plantation labor. In the long run, the cost of using machinery, would be cheaper, than the expense of keeping slaves. If slavery continued at all, it probably would have been, in the form of a housekeeper, or house labor, or a personal servant, and slavery in that form, would have probably ceased to exist after awhile.
Gunsmoke, that's where I have to shear off from your point of view. If the South had won, I think slavery would have been more widespread and would have lasted longer, even into the late 20th century!
It has often been said the slavery is the oldest of vices and is also the hardest to root out. I think the South would have expanded it's territory by invading south of the Rio Grande and by taking Cuba. Slavery would have become a 'Cherished' institution and a way of life for the South.
Even if machinery would have been developed to harvest cotton more effectively, who would have run the machinery? Slaves, of course. No white man would have dared taken on labor traditionally handled by slaves.
I think the peculiar institution would have lasted far longer than anyone on this board could imagine. Look at the attitudes towards blacks AFTER the Civil War. And that is after they had been freed. Imagine if slavery was still the norm during the 1950's and 60's. That is my big 'What if' and I am afraid it would have been more likely to happen than any other historical scenario.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Yes, that could have happened. There, might could have been some future problems, that the south would have run into, when attempting to deal, with nations, that didn't support slavery. Which could have made slavery a burden to keep. But all we can do is speculate, which is part of the fun of the "what if" questions.
No doubt if jackson would have been at GB they probably sweep the field on the first day, but i agree the over all out come would still rely on political victories rather than battle field victories. I would ask you if Lee wins at gettysburg at the least attempts to siege washington or take it would lincoln been able to hold office, and even if lee has to abandon washington would lincoln have been re elected in 1864? I say he wouldn't have. The people would have lost all faith in him, and Mcclellan would have easily won, thus ending the war by political means. Fact is no matter how much you admire the courage of the southern man they could never have Militarily defeated them. Their best hope was winning the war of attrition they eventually lost. So it depends on how you look at it. But i question the ability of the lincoln administration to keep up an un popular war had lee marched through the streets of washington. Do not forget even though the NOrth won at Gettysburg the riots and anarchy going on in the north was almost ready to tear the northern states apart. just imagine the anarchy had the south won. Lincoln was never that popular. he more popular in death than he ever was in life. Thanks
The more i sat there and thought about it the more obvious it becomes what a disaster it would have been had Jackson been there and Lee gained the victory. Granted The AOP would still be more than able to put up a fight, but their moral would have been terribly low, and they would have had to re group and chased lee. of course we know the AOP was never very fast. more like a Giant lumbering blue snake. And who says lee would go to Washington?. Before the AOP is able to recover and pursue Lee could be sitting in new York for all we know , since it is purely speculation. Lee has all the advantage at this point . though he is cut off from home he can supply himself thanks to the great state of New York. Once the AOP caught up with him if they ever did Lee would be dug in waiting for them. But most likely lee would have simply out maneuvered them as he always did and taken a scenic loop around the northern states with nothing but green troops and militia to stop him. I really don't see Lincoln recovering from such embarrassment. knowing the Northern army they would have panicked and called the troops in from the west to come help. All Speculative of course. thanks
It would have been interesting if Lee had won Gettysburg. I don't think, that he would have had the forces, to have beat the fortifications, and troops, that were stationed around Washington. His greatest hope, would have been in northern representatives, to vote to stop the war, or Lincoln's loss of the election. The only other variable factor in this, would be how much Lincoln's approval rating would go up, with the fall of Vicksburg
I don't honestly think Jackson would have made the difference at Gettysburg... For the first time since the beginning of the War the Unmion had a COMPETANT General in charge of the AOP. Meade was an unknown quantity to Lee and Stuart still failed to be "the eyes of the ANV." Jacksons old Corps still performed admirably at Gettysburg... Remember one thing, it is the men that make the General; a General can lead and inspire them but it is the enlisted men who do the bleeding and dieing. Jackson old Corps fought well, would they have done better if Jackson was there? Personally I think that question dishonors fine fighting men. They fought every bit as splendidly after Jacksons death as before.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I think that Jackson would have made a big difference at Gettysburg. Enough to have caused the battle to be a clear tactical victory for Lee. Maybe not enough to have forced a massive Union retreat, but enough to set the Union back once again. Everything continues in disarray and Lincoln loses the election of 1864. McClellan sues for peace, gets it at a terrible cost and the Union is hopelessly fractured (not just north and south, but ultimately into any number of regional alliances).
On the bright side, McClellan never bothers to become Governor of New Jersey and thereby fails to start NJ on a path of bad governance that continues unbroken to this day. :-)
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