Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
And now the question. These two Southern Gentlemen(for thats what they were) One nobel, intelegent, beloved by all who serve under his command.
Marse Robert the Grand Commander, all that Jackson is not (remember his educational record was not all that outstanding) But Jackson.... a bit of an oddball (no disrespect but he did think black pepper in his food hurt his legs AND that his blood was out of balance so he went into battle with one hand held aloft to equalizel the flow) personally not well liked by the men he commanded, not as good a soldier on paper as R.E.Lee BUT! As pious, devoted to his beliefs as R.E.Lee and posesses a tenacity not to be believed AND an incredible soldier in practice. Loving husband, good father. (not for long though)
Now the question. It is obvious that the men who served under Marse Robert
would have marched or crawled on bleeding nubs through Hell at his order and given their lives WITHOUT question. Would the men serving under General Thomas Jackson have done the same? Knowing that Jackson rubbed many of the officers under him the wrong way. Just remember his feelings about poor Garnett. He certainly did not deserve the stigma Jackson attached to him, or A.P Hill there was no love lost there. But a wounded Garnett rode in to his own mortality, to change the opinion Marse Robert had heard of him from Jackson.
I didn't see a lot of loyalty there.
The war would not last two years. With Lee as commander, Virginia, of course, is not in the war. The Confederacy, smaller with much fewer logistical centers and most of the Virginians out of the war, cannot fight much longer than a year.
Virginia, Lee and the other West Point trained officers from Virginia, together with its logistics base made it a war.
Well, you guys do have one point, the war wouldn't have lasted as long, because (IMHO) the south didn't have very many able commanders, and if they didn't have Lee, Well he was a great leader ( a little fulll of himself though) not to mention that would have dissolved the great Lee-Jackson partnership.
__________________ "Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees."
I'm afraid you've over simplified a bit. Many more Southern soldiers had been through West Point besides Gen. Lee. Collectively they were a force to be reckoned with. The southern soldier, in most cases a farmer, trying to defend his homeland was also a major factor in the length of the war. They were simply defending their homeland and their families. Armament, training, supply challenges, weather, less population, all were conditions predicting the final outcome. The spirit was there and there was a bunch of it.
I really don't know if it would have made any difference in the total outcome at all. All of the Generals of both sides, with the exception of a few, were product of West Point or VMI. Each of them had there strenghts and weaknesses and most of all they had there EGO's.
At times it almost seems that they used the war, not for the betterment of the cause, but futher that big engine, ego. This of course at the cost of thousands of lives on both sides.
Lee beleaved in the cause of the south. I also am very sure that he understood the short comings that he and the other southern generals were about to face. Had his feelings been with the north and had he taken the commision offered, he may have faced to some degree, a much harder time at first.
Larry, you mentioned how much you southern boys admire and respect Gen N.B. Forrest. I must say this, in reading his reports in the OR, this yankee, holds a deep respect for this fine leader.
We're starting to sound like graduation from West Point or VMI or the Citadel automatically conferred some magical ability on military leaders. Try this: those most likely to get a commission early on were graduates (ignoring those who could bring political support).
Those who managed to do some good did so with some other personal quality than an academic background. To be sure, having graduated from military schools did imply some knowledge of movement, drill, engineering and the basic knowledge of military requirements. It ended there.
Nonet of the great ones became great because of the schooling, they had something else.
Morning Everyone,
Lee wasn't very impressive at all early in the war when the Union occupied West Virginia.He really wasn't thought of that highly either in the Confederate military until old Joe was wounded.Granny Lee wasn't a complimentary nickname.It is my personal opinion that Stonewall Jackson is the reason Bobby Lee is so acclaimed as a strategist.With Longstreet and Jackson together if they could get along they would form a formiddable duo.Jackson was hard to get along with but he never lost so I think the men would follow him.But Robert E. Lee with the advantages the Union army had in men and supplies.That is a scary thought.He could've conceivably taken Virginia out sooner ,and brought the war to an earlier conclusion possibly between 2 or 3 years.Or as one poster mentioned he could've been soundly defeated and demoted by Lincoln.That could be a possibility.If Lee went up against Joe about 2 years into the war he'd probably rout him.I guess we should've qualified whether or not Joe would still be in the picture.The First Bull Run would've probably been the same as the Northern army that fought there were hardly trained soldiers.I'm not sure Lee would've made much a difference there.Would Lincoln can him after that who knows?The Confederate calvary was also superior early on so the South would have that in its favor.I must confess that it is very hard to imagine a perfect Southern gentlemen with character such as Robert E. Lee in a Yankee uniform.
Robert E. Lee had too much honor to even consider commanding the army that was being formed. While he served the US, his loyalty was to Virginia. He could never have considered leading an army through Virginia. That is why he resigned.
__________________ F. S. Powers
Union Ancersor: Pvt Arnuah Norton, 60th Ohio. (G-G-G Grandfather) Died at Salisbury NC, November 3, 1864
Confederate Ancestors: Captain Thomas A. Morrow, 29th Texas Cavalry (G-G-G- Uncle) and 2LT George W. Morrow, 31st Texas Cavalry (G-G-G Grandfather). Both survived the war
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I still think Lee would have been inhibited badly at first by the lack of talent in his subordinates. If you look at McDowell's army most of the subordinates that are in brigade and division command do not inspire greatness. Lee had better corps and divisional leadership which helped overcome the numerical deficiencies they faced.
Lee would've won the thing in shorter then 4 years, but not immediately either.
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