What would you do? - Page 5

rivrrat · #41 07-17-2004, 03:03 PM

Tis is the post I ment to put here.

Shane,

I agree with you that the .45 Army Colt was a first rate firearm in 1876. I think that it is still a first rate firearm.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the 45-70 carbine. The 45-70 was a single shot breach-loading weapon. The technology was obsolete at the time of adoption by the army. It is the old story of Army Ordinance Boards. Repeating rifles were too expensive, they were to complicated for the average trooper to understand and maintain, there were all these Springfields left over from the CW, which could be converted, to trapdoor. (I used to own one of these conversions, till the burglar got it.) Additionally the extractors on the 45-70s were defective, which caused them to fail under sustained firing. As a result, the troopers would have to extract spent cartridges from the breech by digging them out with their knives. The study, which you cite, bears this out (IIRC I am also working from memory). This reduced the effectiveness of the 45-70.

All in all though, I think that the overwhelming numerical superiority of the Indians, and the stupidity of Custer’s tactics had a lot more to do with his defeat than any weapons disparity.

On the subject of the Indians during the CW, let me recommend a book to you. Lincoln and the Indians, by David A. Nichols, University of Missouri Press 1978, reprinted by University of Illinois Press 2000.

(Message edited by rivrrat on July 17, 2004)

LHTIMS · #42 02-28-2005, 07:13 PM

The COmmerce bldg in Washington burned I believe in 1920 or 21. Nearly all census records were destroyed with a few exceptions. Thru geneology folks (like me) they're trying to re-construct as much as possible. Col. Smith

LHTIMS · #43 02-28-2005, 07:16 PM

I managed to put my first reply in wrong place (I think):
The COmmerce bldg in Washington burned I believe in 1920 or 21. Nearly all census records were destroyed with a few exceptions. Thru geneology folks (like me) they're trying to re-construct as much as possible. Col. Smith

Neo-Confederate · #44 07-23-2005, 10:59 AM

i would do everything i possibly could to prevent Stonewall Jackson from riding into the woods the night of May 2nd, 1863, because if Jackson had lived then i think the Confederacy would've won the war. if i had to physically restrain Jackson from riding into the woods that night then i'd try my best to.

the other thing i would do is try to convince Jefferson Davis to have Lincoln assasssinated as early as 1861. if Lincoln had been killed earlier then his replacement would probably have been much more likely to discuss peace and granting the South its independence.

FSPowers · #45 09-07-2005, 04:09 PM

What to do differently,

Convince J.E.B. Stuart not to go off and leave Lee blind during the Second Northern Invasion (1863).

Convince Jackson not to go riding in the dark.

Convince the Confederate Government not to use cotton as a weapon in order to gain recognition from UK and France.

Convince Lee to flank McClellan instead of hitting him head on at Malvern Hill.

Convince Lee to listen to Longstreet at the end of Gettysburg Day 1.

Convince Lee to flank Meade instead of launching the Pickett-Pettigrew-Trimble charge.

Keep a doctor with A. S. Johnston.

Prevent Lincoln's assassination. (He would have been the South's best friend.)

ole · #46 09-07-2005, 05:00 PM

Encouraged Lincoln to level Charleston if the fort were fired upon

Encouraged Jeff Davis to quit after Atlanta fell, before Sherman began the coups de grace, while he had Lincoln around to "let 'em up easy."

The handwriting was CARVED into the wall well before that, but he did have to hold out some hope of victory.

Forced Buchanan to hang the Rhetts and a few other fire-eaters, including William Lloyd Garrison.

Let the first 7 states go, but deny them recognition of UK and France. They'd have been back soon enough.

Ole

matthew mckeon · #47 10-20-2005, 08:57 PM

If I could go back, I'd get elected to Congress in 1850 and make a speech.
"My Southern friends, the ancient Greek philosopher Diogenes, famous for looking in vain for an honest man, once came across a friends of his in a hurry and looked stressed. "What's the matter?" inquired the philosopher. "My slave has escaped, and I am looking for him, the rascal." replied his friend. "Are you not ashamed?" said Diogenes,"your slave can do without you, but you cannot do without your slave."

The point of this charming anecdote is to prevent the passage of the Fugitive Slave Law, an act that was to infuriate otherwise indifferent Northerners, and present the absolute worst aspect of Southern society to the world. In addition it persecuted a class of people, who more than anyone, black or white, had demonstrated that they deserved freedom.
It was, in my opinion, a giant step towards war.

I would also suggest, that the South should abolish slavery forthwith, since it was the considered opinion of many posters of the future, it was on the verge of collapse, barely viable and would be sure to be abolished in a few years anyway.

I'm afraid my irrefutable logic would fall on deaf ears however. Sigh.

ole · #48 10-21-2005, 04:25 PM

Matthew:

Another thoughtful and insightful post. You do tend to get right to the meat, don't you?

Ole

ole · #49 10-21-2005, 04:39 PM

Rivrrat:

Agree that the .45 Long Colt was an awesome weapon. I would also advance that it was the most beautiful weapon ever crafted with, perhaps, the exception of the Luger.

The only thing going for the trapdoor .45-70 was its massive knock-down power. Somewhere in excess of the .577 or .58 minie ball and most certainly the corks they shot out of Spencers and Henrys. But then, the U.S. Army does not have a bright and shining history of arming the troops with appropriate weapons. WWII's Garand might qualify as an exception, and the M-16 has its advocates.

Just a couple of thoughts while I'm still peckish.
Ole

matthew mckeon · #50 10-22-2005, 01:27 PM

Just had another 1850s thought. I'd loiter in the Senate Chamber after Sumner's big "Crime Against Kansas" speech. As Preston Brooks came down the aisle to "chastize" (is that the word?) Sumner, I'd tackle him and said, "Preston, this isn't going to help matters! People will feel sorry for Sumner! I didn't think that was possible, but it's true!" Brook was a tough guy, but hopefully I could hold on to him long enough to reason with him.....maybe not. At least Sumner could have a chance get up and it would be a fair fight.