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I think CWBulartn and 30th il maybe on to some self promotion by the men who were with Gen. Prentiss at Shiloh.
For one, there was a wise tale going around that Gen. Prentiss and his men were capture still in their tents sleeping which even Grant dispels.
For the other, Grant never mentions the Hornets Nest or Sunken road in his battle report or in his memoirs. In his memoirs he states Prentiss did not fall back with the other divisions which left him exposed and later capture.
The impression I get from Grant is that the whole Hornets Nest and Sunken Road never existed but just part of the union forces falling back, nothing special.
In his memoirs, he mention the names of creeks which the union reformed the defensive lines on and some ravine too. He never talks in the terms like Hornet nest or Sunken road.
I read some parsed regimental histories like one from the state of MO. In it, it praise Gen. Prentiss and tells how Grant rides up to Gen. Prentiss and tells him his division must hold the line. In this regimental history Sherman's men and Wallace's men are force to retreat because the lines were crumbling and being over run leaving Prentiss men exposed.
Historians like a good story and if they went by Grant's account there is no cool story but if you go by the self promoters then there's a good story....
I needed to find a time line of the battle so I can match up events and see how they all relate....
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
I've wondered if Ambrose Bierce was referring to the Hornet's Nest when he wrote this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrose Bierce
I remember a deep ravine a little to the left and rear of the field I have described, in which, by some mad freak of heroic incompetence, a part of an Illinois regiment had been surrounded, and refusing to surrender was destroyed, as it very well deserved. My regiment having at last been relieved at the guns and moved over to the heights above this ravine for no obvious purpose, I obtained leave to go down into the valley of death and gratify a reprehensible curiosity.
and if so, there appears to have been more than one contemporary view of things. But Bierce was generally sour anyway, so maybe it's best not to read him too literally.
Just behind the "sunken" road is a ravine.The guys on that line could go down there, clean their rifles, take a break, and come back up to shoot some more. Couldn't have been that much fun, but the ravine did much to make the "hornet's nest" formidable.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Just behind the "sunken" road is a ravine.The guys on that line could go down there, clean their rifles, take a break, and come back up to shoot some more. Couldn't have been that much fun, but the ravine did much to make the "hornet's nest" formidable.
ole
According to Timothy B Smith that reveine was only about 1-3 feet deep at the time of the battle the tourist traffic has worn it down that much. He also said that the park is starting to switch it offical interpretation of the that of Cunningham's after further research now. They just wish that they had all the records the D W Reed had, sadly they we destroyed by a tornado in the early 1900's that hit the park.
]I find it amazing that one person's opinion can shape so much histroy when so many men we involved.
There is another figure at Shiloh that everyone forgets to mention on that day in 1862. It is Lew Wallace, who's Division was in reserve that day down river form Pittsburgh Landing.
Grant orders Lew Wallace Div. to come up and support Sherman which he does. The problem arises is that there were two roads to reach where Sherman was, a upper road and a lower road.
Lew Wallace chose the upper road which would have put him to the right of Sherman men but when he arrived Sherman had already been push back. He found his Div. was located behind the rebel lines
The receive a message from Grant asking where he was and get to Pittsburgh Landing. Here is where Lew made his faithful decision. He could have attack the rebels from behind and most likely been the Hero of the day but he chose to follow Grant's order. He counter march his Div. and arrived at Pittsburgh Landing as the battle was ending.
He was not admonish for arriving late at first but as the public outcries of the body count grew. Wallace became the scape goat for Grant and Halleck.
Yes, our humble Grant used Wallace as a scape goat for his failing at Shiloh. Grant did not know there where two roads that led from where Lew Wallace Div. was to where Sherman was. The road Wallace chose was the logical one for it put him where Sherman should have been. He could have attack the rebels form behind but he follow Grant's basically new orders and marched to Pittsburgh landing.
Grant and Halleck needed a scape goat and Lew Wallace the young Div. commander was thier choice. I can understand Halleck or he was a political rascal but Grant has always been related to us as a honorable man above military politics. The Lew Wallace story puts a finger in that...So what other back stabbing did Grant do during the war?
Maybe Grant could not share the spot light with Prentiss either that is why he plays down the Hornet nest tale.
Shermen is spoken in glowing terms is because Grant was playing favorites.
Maybe Grant was a bigger political rascal then history makes him out to be. Think, you do not become the most powerful military figure in America without having soon political skills.... back stabbing is a political tool.
Oh, Grant you hide your political skills so well...
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Is 5fish bragging or complaining about Grant's political skills?
GEN. GRANT WAS BOTH!!
The positive he was more of a political "artisan or a rascal" then either himself or historians give him credit for. I beleive it was an image he promoted of being non-political but in truth you do not reach high office in the military unless you are politically astute.
The negative he was more then willing to destroy another officer's honor and career to save his own. He was willing to play down other peoples achievements for his own political gain. He was a political beast in the aftermath of Shiloh.
I just pointing out that Gen. Grant was a political beast!
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Since politics is endemic in All institutions and groups, 'political artisan' is not necessarily the same as 'rascal'
All Human beings try to project an image and,of course, one seldom reaches Any position of authority, in Any organization, unless one is politically astute , Or are All successful people 'Rascals' and/or 'political beasts' ?
P.S. I understand that the 'politics' as practiced in the halls of Academe are every bit as vicious and remorseless as in the Military or in the board rooms of corportate America.
Many of the generals were political beasts, McClellan, Halleck, and my favorite, McClernand. Much of Grant's political were from experience I think...from how he was treated by Halleck and McClernand. I think Sherman gave Logan the short end after Atlanta, by giving the Corps command to O.O. Howard and not to Blackjack.
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'If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.'
Mark Twain
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