CivilWarTalk.com - A free and friendly Civil War community.
CivilWarTalk.com
The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk  

Go Back   The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk > The Backpack - Essential Discussions > Civil War History - The South & Western Theaters

Civil War History - The South & Western Theaters Check this forum for all South and Western Theater Questions. Included are the Western, Pacific, Trans-Mississippi, & Lower Seaboard and Gulf Approach Theaters.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-06-2008, 02:35 PM
Joey12thga's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Default Allatoona Pass

Hello,

I was wondering if yo umay be able to help me. I have been researching Allatoona Pass for a Living History program. I have hit a couple road blocks and was hoping someone here might be able to help with the answers or give me a new direction to seek them

1. Has anyone seen a description of what the inside of the Garrisoned Redoubts looked like? More interested in the Eastern side. Tents, shelter halves, make shift huts or anything?

2. Anyone found a reference to a surgeon over on the eastern redoubt? I know there was one on the Star Fort cause he helped Corse once he was "short a cheek bone and ear".

3. If you were in a situation to do or see something at the Pass on the Eastern Redoubt. What would you want to see?


Thanks
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-06-2008, 03:40 PM
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: tennessee
Posts: 64
Default

Joey,

You may want to google "Private Jefferson Moses, Co. G. 93rd Illinois". His dairy is online and it does cover some interesting Allatoona content, both pre and post battle.

The website is www.ioweb.com, but I've been having problems with that, so google may be better.

Hope this helps!

Roy
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-06-2008, 08:44 PM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 4,074
Default

The Battle of Allatoona Pass on October 5th 1864 is often referred to as the bloodiest battle of the Civil War with 30% casualties in less than four hours... a little less than five casualties per minute.

No less than three women in the uniform of a soldier were found among the Confederate casualties. One was identified as a member of the 29th NC, another of the Missouri Brigade and the third woman was never identified in any way being buried beside her comrades.

Lt Colonel James Redfield of the 39th IA was killed while fighting from a chair... he had been wounded twice in the leg before propping himself on a chair so he could continue the battle beside his men. The third wound was fatal.

Ten Confederate 12 Pound Napoleons & two 3" Ordnance Rifles expended their complete ordnance load (minus canister) which was approx one Cannon Ball, Bolt or shell impacting on the US position every minute for eight hours. At a range of approx 1500 yards they managed to do no appreciable damage to the largest US entrenchment, the Star Fort, and had little if any real effect upon the battle.

In contrast the six guns of the 12th Wisconsin Battery expended all of their ammunition and resorted to firing bags of brass buttons packed in sawdust at the enemy infantry. One Napoleon of the battery was double shotted with canister at every discharge, the repeated heavy recoil required the replacement of both wheels, the axle and severely damaged the stock rail. This particular gun was pulled from Rowetts Redoubt, the scene of the heaviest fighting, when it expended its initial ammunition load. It was manhandled a distance of approx 250 yards, uphill, under fire into the Star Fort where it would be resupplied and continue its deadly work in earnest until it fully expended its ammunition.

It has been estimated that roughly 600,000 rounds were fired. A rate of fire that equaled a little more than a thousand rounds per minute for the duration of the battle.

At one point a force of approx one hundred men made a charge, with the intent of setting fire to some warehouses. They suffered a casualty rate of approx 60% from a single volley delivered from a range of greater than three hundred yards. They made no further attempt. Such accurate shooting was not well known in the Civil War and it was delivered by Union troops.

With tidbits like these is it any wonder that the men involved thought it the hardest fight of the war... and men who had been at places like Shiloh, Iuka, Corinth, Vicksburg campaign, Mission Ridge and the Atlanta campaign had something to measure it against.

-----

The Surgeon of the 4th MN VI remained in the Eastern Redoubt throughout the battle. The 4th MN VI was the largest US Regiment on site w/ about 450 men and quite a few of those were recent recruits and arrivals . They had a reputation as shooters earned at Vicksburg and it was most likely them that delivered the lethal volley that claimed 60% casualties. They were armed w/ a mix of M1861's & M1841arms. There were 2 x 3" Rifles and a Napolean in the Eastern Redoubt. The men of the 4th had been set in tents, probably dogtents, around the HQ of the Regiment to the west of the Eastern Redoubt.

THe 4th MN VI was a tough Veteran outfit, IMO representative of the average US unit in the AoT US. They had been at Corinth, Iuka, the Vicksburg Campaign (being the first into Vicksburg). They were chosen to make the bridgehead across the TN river at Chatanooga and thus they were spared fighting against Cleburne's boys the next day. After their Furlough they had been in garrison at Kingston and themn Allatoona. Partisans were scared to death of them as they had a well earned rep of being able to shoot and enough "Indian fighters" and Indians in their ranks to make life interesting for raiders. There were at least four Laundresses w/ the Regiment while in garrison there and they helped in the hospital.

The men of the 4th were mostly fighting the 35th & 39th Miss. throughout the day inflicting about 250 casualties on them and capturing both their flags. Throughout the battle they participated in long range rifle work in particular catching the 36th & 46th Miss in enfilade (which disrupted their attack) as they made their assault up the slope to catch the 39th IA in flank at Rowett's Redoubt as well as bloodying the 39th NC south of the ration sheds.

Elisha Cross was the Regimental Surgeon w/ Henry Wedel as the Asst Surgeon.

Almost the entire rest of the US force were in or about the Star Fort. w/ only some Arty men of the 12th WI battery and, I believe, 15 men of the 5th Ohio Cav.

I've been studying Allatoona pretty heavily the last couple years. If you're doing a Living History there pick up Allatoona Pass A Needless Effusion of Blood by Scaife it's available at the historical society. Also if you have access to a good library The Battle of Allatoona by Joseph Brown. It's only available through interlibrary loan w/ 2-3 universities having a copy. I had to pay $10-15 to get it and then I could only view it at the library but it was well worth it as it filled some holes in the story.

Also track down and talk w/ Gary Wehner, he's in charge of monument park and is a wealth of information. He's in Smyrna Ga.

I hope that is somewhat helpful, good luck and please let me know if more info would be useful. PS if you're doing a 4th MN impression leave your forage cap at home; they were never issued them as far as I can tell. 2 issues of Hardees, no forage caps as far as I've found and some men at least one man mustered out in 65 purchasing his M1841's and "sabre bayonet."
__________________
Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-06-2008, 10:00 PM
Joey12thga's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Default

Shane and Roy,

Thanks so much. I have been goign through everything I can find about Allatoona. I have been getting SCaifes boook through loan because it is 65-125 bucks to purchase anymore. I havent been able to get a hld of the EVHS though but I have a friend on the inside who is trying to get me a copy.

Shane, contact me off board at joeygangler@hotmail.com and I will let you get a first glimpse of whats in my noodle if you want.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-06-2008, 10:35 PM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 4,074
Default

Joseph, post it here. I about guarantee some will enjoy it.

EVHS has the Scaife book for $20-25 I don't recall which.
__________________
Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:55 PM
Joey12thga's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Default

Let me think about it, right now all I have is my proposal and that hasn't been formally submitted. Plus I dont wanna tip my hand and ruin the surprise.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-09-2008, 12:36 PM
Joey12thga's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Default

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:34 PM
Joey12thga's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Default

Shane,

Just so you know. Thanks to your info you have given me , our impression will be the 4th MN. Thank you for your help and please feel free to post anything of interest you want to abotu Allatoona. Also anything about the 4th MN up to Allatoona, and any books and other resources you can reccomend.

BTW if you do not Mind I would like to add a credit to the event site for the help you have rendered. Also I though about posting the event proposal on here but I know some guys on here who may come to the eent and I do not wanna ruin the surprise and get their hopes up and let them down if soething doesnt work. You are more than welcome to email me and I will send you a copy to review. It is too long to post in a PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-09-2008, 08:43 PM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 4,074
Default

Col. John B. Sanborn, Fourth Minnesota Infantry, commanding First Brigade
HDQRS. 1ST BRIGADE 7TH DIVISION, 17TH ARMY CORPS,
Camp in Field before Vicksburg, Miss., May 25, 1863.
COLONEL: I have the honor to report the marches made by my command and the part taken by it in the battles fought during the campaign from Milliken's Bend, La., to this camp.
On April 21, I received your order to send forward one brigade to Richmond, La., immediately, and relieve the command stationed there. At this time the general commanding this division was absent, and my command consisted of the Seventh Division, comprising: First Brigade-Fifty-ninth and Forty-eighth Indiana, Seventy-second Illinois: and Fourth Minnesota Regiments; Second Brigade--Tenth Missouri, Seventeenth Iowa, Eightieth Ohio, and Fifty-sixth Illinois Regiments; Third Brigade--Fifth Iowa, Twenty-sixth Missouri, Ninety-third Illinois, and Tenth Iowa Regiments ; and Battery M, First Missouri Light Artillery, Sixth and Twelfth Wisconsin Batteries, Eleventh Ohio Battery, two companies of cavalry, and pioneer corps of 137 effective men. The pioneer corps was already detached to work on Walnut and Roundaway Bayous, and did not come up during the time I remained in command of the division. This order was immediately complied with, and the Fifty-sixth Illinois and Seventeenth Iowa Regiments moved forward to Richmond the same day, distance 12 miles, and the remaining portion of the Second Brigade moved forward to Richmond the following day.
On April 23, I marched with the First Brigade and First Missouri and Eleventh Ohio Batteries to Richmond, and moved the Third Brigade and remaining batteries forward to that point on the 25th instant, and on the same day moved the Second Brigade on to Holmes' plantation, distance 9 miles; and during that night marched the First Brigade, with the exception of the Seventy-second Illinois, which, pursuant to your order, I left in command of Richmond, and two batteries, up to the same point.
On the 26th, the First and Second Brigades and two batteries marched forward to Smith's plantation, distance 9 miles, and bivouacked, and the Third Brigade and remaining batteries moved forward to within about 4 miles of that point. All camp and garrison equipage had been left behind, and the teams sent back to Milliken's Bend to bring forward rations to keep the supply up to ten days on hand, in accordance with Special Orders, No.--, from department headquarters but this train was seized and turned over to an ordnance officer to bring forward ammunition, and some of the regiments of the division were out of rations when we arrived at this point, and were supplied with bread by the post commissary.
On the 27th, the division did not move, for the reason that General Logan's division did not get past during the day, the roads being next to impassable.
On the 28th, the whole division moved together at 6 o'clock, and marched only about 4 miles during the day. I marched in the rear of General Logan's division, and the teams and batteries nearly all had to double the teams and go over the road twice.
On the 29th, the division was marched to Perkins' plantation, distance 11 miles, and bivouacked, and a few rations were obtained.
On the 30th, the march was continued to Hard Times Landing, opposite Grand Gulf, distance about 16 miles. At this point officers and men were a little disheartened upon learning that the Navy had found it impossible to reduce the Grand Gulf batteries, and that we must still continue our march down the river past this point before we could cross over.
Early on the morning of the 1st instant, I marched my command down the river to the point of embarkation for the east side. About the time of reaching this point, the rapid reports of artillery from the east side of the river announced that the advance of the army had come upon the enemy, and the soldiers were eager for the fray, and the infantry of the whole division (with the exception of the Fifty-sixth Illinois, which was detailed to remain in command of Hard Times temporarily), consisting of about 5,000 men, embarked on board transports, sailed 10 miles down the river to Bruinsburg, and disembarked in about one hour and a half, and moved forward toward the front line of the army before the brigade and division commanders could get their horses across the river.
After marching about 10 miles from the river toward the field of battle, and to a point within about 3 miles of the field, and before the division commander and staff had got up, an order was received from the major-general commanding the corps, by Colonel Holmes, commanding the leading brigade, to fall back to the junction of the Grand Gulf road with the Bruinsburg and Port Gibson road, and form, so as to resist any advance of the enemy from Grand Gulf by that road.
Colonel Holmes had disposed of the Second and Third Brigades and one battery of artillery in order of battle when I arrived upon the ground. The First Brigade and remaining batteries, with the exception of one held in reserve, were disposed in order of battle as fast as they came up, and in such manner as to resist any attack from the direction of Grand Gulf.
These batteries did not arrive so that the disposition could be completed till 11 o'clock at night. During this day the division marched 11 miles, and embarked on transports and sailed 10 miles and disembarked, and was carefully drawn out in order of battle at night at 1 o'clock.
On the morning of the 2d instant I received the order of the major-general commanding the corps to move forward my whole command at 3 a.m. to the field of battle. I marched accordingly, and at sunrise reported with my whole command on the field, having marched 6 miles.
At about 8 o'clock I was informed that the enemy had retired from the field, and I was ordered forward to Port Gibson, at which place I arrived with my command about 11 a.m., distance from the battle-field about 4 miles.
At this place the division remained about five hours, during which time the pontoon bridge was constructed across the south branch of Bayou Pierre, and during this time Brigadier-General Crocker reported to take command of the division, which marched about 8 miles to the north branch of Bayou Pierre before halting for night, making 19 miles that the division marched on this day.
Upon Brigadier-General Crocker assuming command of the division, I assumed command of the First Brigade. One regiment (the Fourth Minnesota) was detailed on fatigue duty during the night, to repair the suspension bridge crossing the north branch of Bayou Pierre that the rebel army had fired and partially burned.
During the time that I commanded the division, I received great assistance from Captain Rochester, assistant adjutant-general; Capt. L. B. Martin, temporary aide-de-camp; Lieutenant [Thomas S.] Campbell, aide-de-camp; Lieutenant [Ogden] Lovell, ordnance officer; Captain [Albert] Stoddard, judge-advocate and acting aide-de-camp, and Lieutenant [Charles L.] White, provost-marshal, all most gallant, efficient, and capable officers, and to all of whom I shall feel under lasting obligations.
On the morning of May 3, I crossed the north branch of Bayou Pierre with my brigade, following General Logan's division and leading the Seventh Division. The enemy opened with artillery in our front early in the morning, but retired rapidly until General Logan's division led off to the left, toward the Grand Gulf road, and the Seventh Division was marching in advance on the road leading from the Port Gibson and Jackson road to Hankinson's Ferry. When about 5 miles south of the ferry, the enemy deployed a long line of skirmishers, and formed a few regiments of infantry and put in position a battery of artillery.
The Fourth Minnesota was ordered forward as a support on the right, and the Forty-eighth Indiana as a support on the left of the road, with instructions to keep within supporting distance of the skirmishers.
When the skirmishers had advanced about 1 mile from the head of the main column, they came to the enemy's line, with two pieces of artillery in such position as to command all the open ground in front, through which my command was obliged to pass. This open ground was passed in the order above mentioned, under a heavy fire from the enemy's guns. The Fifty-ninth Indiana was the most exposed, but did their duty most manfully, obeying every order with alacrity. The Fourth Minnesota and Forty-eighth Indiana, as supports, moved up promptly and without hesitation. The conduct of all the officers and men was commendable and satisfactory. The enemy was driven from his first, second, and third positions, when, in obedience to your orders, I called in the skirmishers and moved on with my command to the crossing of the Big Black River, where we bivouacked, near Hankinson's Ferry.
In this skirmish I have to report the following casualties: Killed, Private Eli Fancette, and, mortally wounded, James W. Van Slyke, Company E, Fifty-ninth Indiana. Several of the officers and men of all the regiments sustained slight injuries, which scarcely can be called wounds.
While my command remained at Hankinson's Ferry, the greatest effort was made to procure rations; but there being no transportation, the command was compelled to leave with only two days' rations on hand.
On the 9th, the brigade moved with the balance of the division to Utica Cross-Roads, a distance of 12 miles, without opposition, and on the 10th marched 10 miles, through Utica and along the Raymond road, and on the following day moved forward 1 ½ miles, and formed in order of battle on a ridge, in a favorable position for defense. My command was entirely out of rations at this time, except what could be gathered from the country, and so remained until the evening of the 17th, at which time the regimental teams came up from Grand Gulf.
On the morning of the 12th, my command marched at 9 a.m., leading the Seventh Division and following General Logan's division. Shortly after noon heavy cannonading in front announced that the advance had fallen upon the enemy. My command was kept closed up as closely as possible to the rear of the Third Division, and after the lapse of an hour or two, I received an order from General Crocker, commanding I he division, to move forward immediately and form on the left of General Logan's division. To arrive at the position indicated it was necessary to pass through a dense thicket of trees, brush, and vines, and then cross a clearing about 100 yards. It would seem that the enemy had formed the design of turning the left of our line, and had massed his infantry accordingly, and had planted his batteries so as completely to command this thicket and clearing, in order to prevent the left from being supported. As soon as my command commenced moving forward to form on the left, the enemy opened as heavy a fire as possible with his artillery upon me, but the formation was made in double-quick time, and my whole line moved up to within about 30 yards of our front line. Not more than a few moments elapsed after my command had reached this position before he advanced his lines of infantry upon the left, but was met with such firmness and so destructive a fire from the front line that he almost immediately gave way and fled from this part of the field. Immediately upon this having transpired, I received the order from General McPherson to move two regiments to my right in support of the center of our lines. The Fifty-ninth and Forty-eighth Indiana Regiments were immediately moved forward to the position indicated, and, at the suggestion of General Crocker, I offered to relieve the front line, which had been engaged at this time three or four hours, but these officers, among whom was the lamented Colonel Dollins, declined the offer, and said he felt certain that he could hold his position without aid.
The enemy by this time appeared in broken squads in front of the center, and in half an hour all firing had ceased and the enemy had fled in confusion from the field.
The only casualty in my command in this action was, Forty-eighth Indiana, 1 enlisted man wounded. After the action ceased, the command marched through Raymond and bivouacked about 1 mile north of the town. The Eighteenth Wisconsin Volunteers joined my brigade at this place.
[only excepts from Battle of Raymond are included by the editor]
JOHN B. SANBORN,
Colonel, Commanding.
__________________
Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-09-2008, 08:51 PM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 4,074
Default

"... the new men came to the company with white haversacks and light canteen covers and traps. A dip in the coffee kettle solved that. We veterans had them throw away everything they didn't need for the coming march and soon had them set to face the secesh. A few of these men have already fought the Indians... (unintelligable) not have to watch them much when they make the aquaintance of the elephant."

The man was a Sgt w/ the 4th MN VI writing home just prior to the start of the Atlanta Campaign.
These excerpts come from the "Fix Letters, 1905" at the Minnesota Historical Society. Mr. Fix was conducting research on the activities of the 4th Minnesota Infantry during the surrender of Vicksburg and sent out a questionaire to the veterans in that command asking about their accoutrement on July 7, 1863. The excerpts are as follows:

M. L. Webb, Co. D, 4th Minnesota:
"We carried Springfield rifles and 40 rounds of cartridges, and woolen and a rubber blanket rolled up and tied at end, carried over right shoulder across under left arm' haversack and two days' rations. Our uniforms were fatigue caps, but many wore black hats."


Linus J. Lee of Co. A wrote:
"Fatique uniforms were worn on July 4th, 1863. Hats, not caps. They carried their canteens, haversacks and knapsacks. We carried the Whitney rifle."

Reuben A. Wheelre of Co. D, wrote:
"As I remember the blue was mostly worn, but there was a mixture of hats and caps. We carried woolen and rubber blankets in a roll. the rubber blanket outside was hung around and over the left shoulder. Springfield rifles as I remember now."

Marion Lyle of Co. K, wrote:
Pants and shirt were commonest; some few blouses."


Richard S. Reeves of Co. F, wrote:
"We wore slouched black hats and regular army blouses; had Springfield rifles with bayonets in scabbard. Had our belts, canteens and haversacks."


Thomas M. Young of Co. A, provideded the best information with this excerpt:
"As to uniform, all wore blouses, 5 button single front, with the buttons on the sleeves (I think as to the sleeves). We all wore hats. There was not a cap worn in the regiment except by the Quartermaster....and Hospital Steward. Our caps all disappeared after the battles of Iuka and Corinth, and there were not, more than twenty-five or thirty at that time, Sept. & Oct. 1862. No more were drawn so far as I know after the spring of 1862. We all wore the black campaign hat without ornament except the sky bule cord (tasseled). They were not worn turned up at the left sid as was at that time required by the regulations."
__________________
Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Allatoona GA Monument johan_steele Campfire Chat - General Discussions 9 04-15-2008 10:01 AM
1864: Battle Of Allatoona thea_447 The Mason-Dixon Gazette 3 11-08-2005 11:55 PM
Sabine Pass: A Secession War thea_447 The Mason-Dixon Gazette 0 09-26-2005 01:55 PM
Heroine of Sabine Pass dawna Civil War History - General Discussion 0 03-24-2005 07:52 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Back to top
Bringing the American Civil War to Life. Copyright © 1999 - 2008, CivilWarTalk.com. Site Version 4.3
The American Civil War | Forum | Resource Center | Image Gallery | Links | Site Map | XML | Donations