Civil War History - The South & Western TheatersCheck this forum for all South and Western Theater Questions. Included are the Western, Pacific, Trans-Mississippi, & Lower Seaboard and Gulf Approach Theaters.
After getting mauled at Atlanta, Hood moved into Tennessee to try and draw Sherman to follow and fight. Sherman didn't take the bait. He either had other fish to fry (he did) or he trusted Schofield and Thomas to take care of the matter (he did and they did). Thomas was the North's equivelant of Longstreet. A careful planner, who moved deliberately and only when the advantage was his. They both cared a great deal for their men and were loathe to waste them (a lesson many other civil war generals could have heeded). After getting nearly eliminated at Franklin, the Army of Tennessee was in no shape to do much of anything. A freezing sleet storm didn't help at all. Remember, the Confederates not only didn't have blankets, many had no shoes, no tents, no fire wood, and no food other than parched corn. The Federals had all comforts, even fresh vegetables. Grant actually insisted that Thomas attack during the sleet storm. Thomas would not be rushed. When the weather broke he moved to finish off Hood's command. Grant had actually replaced Thomas. I forget, off hand, who it was; but he was in transit when the news of the attack and success was announced. He simply turned back. Yes, yes, I know, I'll delve into my resources and get the name unless someone beats me to it. I know Schofield wanted it..bad. There was never any love lost between Grant and Thomas and Schofield played on that all he could.
Calicoboy
__________________ My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
How far behind the AoT would be Thomas' army? How far ahead would be Sherman's army? It would seem that the AoT would be between Sherman and Thomas, that does not seem to be a winning combination....for the south, anyway. Sherman could finish off the AoT, before continuing his march to the sea.
At one time, I had thought it would be wiser for Hood to skip Nashville and hassle Sherman all the way to wherever it was he was going. Someone pointed out that Sherman left nothing for pursuing troops to eat.
I like your idea as well: it would have put Hood between the AotT and the AotO and possibly the AotC. The following Union army(ies) would have been slowed by wagons, but they would have been in position to block Hood.
However, Sherman would have had no way to communicate with pursuing troops, so that seems quite impracticable.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I forget, off hand, who it was; but he was in transit when the news of the attack and success was announced.
Wasn't it Logan?
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Ole,
If anyone would beat me to this it would be you. Indeed it was Major General John A. Logan. Grant was so furious that Thomas wouldn't move during the worst storm in years. Grant never did seem to grasp that men were people. Logan was Sherman's commander of the 15th Corps. He and Sherman didn't get along too well because Sherman liked West Pointers. Logan was fairly shocked when Grant handed him THE orders. He was in the right place at the right time and Grant was in a black mood because of Thomas' "inactivity". After Thomas destroyed Hood things settled down. Too bad Lincoln didn't give command to Thomas instead of Grant. The war would have been over sooner; and 100,000 more Union troops would have got to go home instead of dying for Grant's ego. Do you all gather that I admire Thomas a lot; and do not think much of Grant...ha!
Calicoboy
__________________ My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
Too bad Lincoln didn't give command to Thomas instead of Grant. The war would have been over sooner; and 100,000 more Union troops would have got to go home instead of dying for Grant's ego. Do you all gather that I admire Thomas a lot; and do not think much of Grant...ha!
Who'da thunk? Thomas against Lee? Nah! Lee was too fast for him. Thomas was deliberate -- not slow, deliberate. When facing Lee and his lean, mean, fightin' machine, deliberate will get you killed.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Grant was so furious that Thomas wouldn't move during the worst storm in years. Grant never did seem to grasp that men were people.
Put yourself in Grant's shoes. Hood had been mauled not three weeks before and now he was investing Nashville. Thomas had opportunities before the ice storm to move; he didn't. The ice storm-delay was the icing on the cake (pun intended). Hood could have changed his mind at any time and slipped away from Thomas' hammer -- this is what drove Grant to impatient fury. Here was the remainder of the AoT waiting to be smashed and time's slipping away. If you were Grant, wouldn't you be a bit frustrated?
Grant always understood that men were people. He saw to it that his people were well-fed, -clothed and -equipped. He also knew that, given the opportunity, men would dither and stall and, well, deliberate.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Weather and women are both sometimes fun to discuss. The great thing about weather is that it falls on all within it's impact zone. It was just as wet and cold for Thomas as it was for Hood. The difference was that Thomas had blankets and slickers, a warm stove and some fresh men. Not much of a contest, even had it been 72 and rising. Hood was 'lost' in the wilderness of Williamson county.
Maybe so. But Hood was dug in and his position fortified. Thomas had to move his Artillery, Cavalry and Infantry out of his fortifications and make an attack. He tried to do this a week before but the men and animals were slipping and sliding all over. He called it off. If you'll remember Thomas' plan was to feint with Steedman on his left and swing most of the rest of his attacking force around Hood's fortified (Redoubts) left. Then have Wilson's Cavalry swing further around the left and behind Hood. Tough to do on a skating rink, which were the conditions that I took from the descriptions.
It is an interesting point of history, that while Lee's smaller army was besieged by a larger army at Petersburg, Hood's smaller army was besieging a larger army at Nashville. The fate of both the AoT and the ANV were separarated by only a few mo's. It usually doesn't pay to be the smaller army either offensively or defensively.
Maybe so. But Hood was dug in and his position fortified. Thomas had to move his Artillery, Cavalry and Infantry out of his fortifications and make an attack. He tried to do this a week before but the men and animals were slipping and sliding all over. He called it off. If you'll remember Thomas' plan was to feint with Steedman on his left and swing most of the rest of his attacking force around Hood's fortified (Redoubts) left. Then have Wilson's Cavalry swing further around the left and behind Hood. Tough to do on a skating rink, which were the conditions that I took from the descriptions.
Don
Don, I've been here in this valley about eight miles south of Nashville for the last twenty-eight years and have seen this ice and snow condition far too many times. Neither one of these armies were going anywhere for a least a week (which, I believe is about the time Thomas hesitated). I-65 wasn't open then, just Franklin Pike. I've seen hundred of vehicles in the ditch on Franklin Pike here in the 21st century. Admittedly it wasn't paved in 1865, but slick enough for all concerned.
Thomas was no doubt justified in waiting for the ice to melt. It is equally clear to me why Grant was getting het up. Both views coexist quite nicely.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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Indeed it was Major General John A. Logan. Grant was so furious that Thomas wouldn't move during the worst storm in years. Grant never did seem to grasp that men were people. Logan was Sherman's commander of the 15th Corps. He and Sherman didn't get along too well because Sherman liked West Pointers. Logan was fairly shocked when Grant handed him THE orders. He was in the right place at the right time and Grant was in a black mood because of Thomas' "inactivity". After Thomas destroyed Hood things settled down. Too bad Lincoln didn't give command to Thomas instead of Grant. The war would have been over sooner; and 100,000 more Union troops would have got to go home instead of dying for Grant's ego. Do you all gather that I admire Thomas a lot; and do not think much of Grant...ha!
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