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Even If we could put aside our opinions of Lee and Johnston (and ignoring what Jefferson Davis thoughts might have been, not to mention those of the Confederate Congress) and study their competing formulas we have no basis of comparison outside what did happen in the United States 1860 thru part of 1865.
The historical facts are that Lee tried his formula in the East and Johnston tried his in the West. They both failed.
The War in the East and West were different wars. Both being fought to accomplish a single goal, southern independence. Why they were different is fodder for a different thread.
For this thread. the most reliable estimate we can make concerning events that did not happen, is to extrapolate from the war itself and as I have noted it would seem that both military formula's were inadequate to accomplish the political goal of southern independence.
Which formula would have won the war, would seem more likely to be which would prolong the war the longest. (and IMO with the final result, probably being, essentially, the same)
Atlanta Campaign, Johnston: Shows lots of unflappable-in-a-crisis Johnston skill, but also shows his failure to prepare. In the final analysis, Johsnton driven back 100 miles and forced into the Atlanta defenses.
Regards,
Tim
Hi!
You say Johnston "failed to prepare!" Prepare what?
It took Sherman almost three months to travel the 100 miles and Lee only held out for about 2. Lee had better subsistance for his troops, more of them and the "support" of Davis.
The only effect of the war in the West (and it is significant, I agree) was keeping reinforcements from the AoNV.
Not necessarily true. Grant wrote to Sherman in June I believe, that he didn’t have to worry about keeping Johnston’s or any other Confederate reinforcements from Lee. Told him to do his own thing.
Opening the Mississippi was not a relevant effect?
Capturing and keeping New Orleans was not a relevant effect?
Lottsa “Historians” think capturing Atlanta was relevant. Not so?
The only effect of the war in the West (and it is significant, I agree) was keeping reinforcements from the AoNV.
I cannot agree w/ that, the war was lost by the CS in the West, Oneplez pretty much sums up just some of the relavance of the war in the west.
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You say Johnston "failed to prepare!" Prepare what?
It took Sherman almost three months to travel the 100 miles and Lee only held out for about 2. Lee had better subsistance for his troops, more of them and the "support" of Davis.
Don
Joe Johnston was good at a lot of things, really bad at a couple.
One is being totally unprepared for things like retreats.
For example:
- when McClellan moves to the Peninsula in 1862, Johnston had to destroy incredible amounts of heavy weapons and supplies. This despite plenty of time to ponder the situation (months)
- In 1864, despite having months to prepare for the coming campaign, he is taken by surprise by a move that could have been expected. Then he once again has to destroy supplies and weapons to retreat -- and fails to blow up/destroy the RR tunnel before he withdraws from Rocky Face.
Johnston was unflappable in a crisis, a strong point in his favor. He seems to have been no good at working ahead of time to prevent or minimize the crisis, which is a serious complaint about a professional soldier.
Johnston also was defending in a narrow front, in good defensive terrain. A different soldier would have stopped Sherman well to the North, IMHO, or at least delayed him another month. Moving through those mountains in 2-3 months is an outstanding accomplishment for Sherman. Sherman could not range far from his single RR (3 days haulage by wagons) while he was in them, and his avenues of approach were very limited.
Lee, OTOH, had to worry about maneuvers from the Chesapeake to the Shenandoah. Lee was probably at a greater disadvantage in numbers, and he actually held Richmond-Petersburg for 11 months. Johnston and Hood lost Atlanta in 4 months.
The war in the West was much more vital to the North than the South. The North was invading to re establish Federal Control of the revolting states.
The goal of winning the War (establishing southern independence) for the south was less attainable in the West than the East.
The northern invasion of the west served a twofold purpose, bringing the individual states back under Federal control AND keeping significant reinforcement and supplies from west. Southern efforts in the West only accomplished keeping reinforcements and supplies from reaching the northern armies in the East, which, in the end, they did not need, in any case.
Both eastern armies sent reinforcements west rather than vice versa, but Longstreet eventually had to be sent back to Lee but the two corps that Meade sent, in effect, stayed west.
Even getting back Longstreet did not save Lee's army and the reinforcements from the AoP were not needed to defeat Lee (if the AoT had been available, who knows what Lee could have done with it?). The West may or may not have been 'vital' to the north, but it was in the East where the war was settled, as far as the Confederacy was concerned.
The West may or may not have been 'vital' to the north, but it was in the East where the war was settled, as far as the Confederacy was concerned.
It may have been the Confederacy's lack of focus on the importance of the west that led to defeat, but not the significance of the eastern theater. There were southern armies in all the theaters of war, but the theater that led to the utter loss of the confederacy was in the west.
Well everyone has an opinion, I will only point out that Grant captured 2 armies in the West and 1 in the East. Capturing the 1 Army in the East ended the war.
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