Civil War History - The South & Western TheatersCheck this forum for all South and Western Theater Questions. Included are the Western, Pacific, Trans-Mississippi, & Lower Seaboard and Gulf Approach Theaters.
Jim Hardee!
Pat Cleburne
A. Stewart
John Gordon (?)
Hardee would have been a reasonable choice, but we must factor in Davis' reliance on Bragg to help him make a decision. We believe Cleburne to have been the logical choice. What did they believe? He was not a West Pointer? Not experienced in so large a command? Stewart and Gordon would likely have been good choices; however, Hood and Hardee were senior and on the scene. It appears that neither Bragg nor Davis gave much consideration to anyone other than Hardee and Hood.
A most interesting topic, especially with regard to better choices than Hood. I'd like to hear more discussion on the reasons for the short list being so short.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Hardee would have been a reasonable choice, but we must factor in Davis' reliance on Bragg to help him make a decision. We believe Cleburne to have been the logical choice. What did they believe? He was not a West Pointer? Not experienced in so large a command? Stewart and Gordon would likely have been good choices; however, Hood and Hardee were senior and on the scene. It appears that neither Bragg nor Davis gave much consideration to anyone other than Hardee and Hood.
A most interesting topic, especially with regard to better
choices than Hood. I'd like to hear more discussion on the reasons for the short list being so short.
Ole
A(lexander, Old Straight) Stewart was on the scene at Atlanta. He later was promoted to Lt. General and fought with Johnston at Bentonville.
I believe Johnston would have fought - but only if circumstances were in his favor.
In other word Johnston would have fought little or none . Cause for him circumstances were always in not his favor.
Johnston was good in organizing army and retreating. He was great at this in 1862 in Virignia, 1863 in Mississippi and in 1864 in Georgia.
Johnston had yielded over one hundred miles of mountainous, easily defendable territory in 60 days. This time would be even shorter, but for his luck there were many days with rain during May and June, which caused Sherman to stop his advance.
What was worst, general which main strategy was to retreat, retreat and retreat did not know terrain behind him.
"During it he discovers, to his astonishment, that Johnston is not aware that the railoroad bridges over the Chattahoochee between Georgia and Alabama are unprotected, and he has only a vague knowledge of the geography of that area."
- A.Castel, Decision in the West
But it was not the first time:
"He was therefore summoned to Richmond in February, 1862, for conference. On inquiry into the character of his position at Centerville he stated that his lines there were untenable, but when asked what new position he proposed to occupy, declared himself ignorant of the topography of the country in his rear. This confession was a great shock to my confidence in him. That a general should have been for many months in command of an army, should have selected a line which he himself considered untenable, and should not have ascertained the topography of the country in his rear, was inexplicable on any other theory than that he had neglected the primary duty of a commander. Engineers were sent by me from Richmond to examine the country and to supply him with the requisite information."
- Jefferson Davis's letter to Congress on the matter of General Joseph E. Johnston ; Civil War Official Records, Vol 47, Part 2 pages 1304-1311
I understand that he was planning an offensive and was not interested what terrain was to his rear. But he was not thinking at all about attacking, only about passive defence and retreat.
For Johnston circumstances were always in not his favor. I am not fan of general Bragg, but there is much true in his telegram to J.Johnston.
"In it Bragg sarcastically comments that 'General Lee, like yourself, has had no general battle lately, but in series of partial engagements he has greatly damaged the enemy.'"
- A.Castel - Decision in the West
And remember that general Lee had no opportunity for such great defendable terrain as J.Johnston had in northern Georgia.
In my opinion general Joe Johnston should never be given this command at all! It was no Davis mistake to take him off from command, but that he has given him command of AoT at all!
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Some have said that Lee have doubted about Hood`s ability to command an army. I disagree. In his telegram to Jefferson Davis he has clearly written: "...Hood is a good fighter, very industrious on the battlefield, careless off, and I have had no opportunity of judging his action, when the whole responsibility rested upon him. I have a very high opinion of his gallantry, earnestness and zeal. General Hardee has more experience in managing an army. May God give you wisdom to decide in this momentous matter."
There is no 'doubting' in negative meaning, only statement that he has never had an opportuninity to judge his action, when the whole responsibility rested upon general Hood.
As for general Hardee, Lee does not says that Hardee is better, only that he is more experienced in managing an army.
However Davis already has offered previously AoT to Hardee, but he has declined it on the grounds of "my inability to serve the country successfull in this new sphere of activity". So how could Davis give AoT to commander which evidently lacked confidence in himself?
He was assigned command of the Department of AL, MS, & E.LA on July 18, 1864......the same day Hood was given command of the AoT.
American Civil War Dictionary: Taylor, Richard ("Dick")
He was promoted Lt.Gen. 16 May 1864 to rank from his victory at Sabine C.R. (Mansfeld), 8 April. On 15 Aug. he took command of the Dept. of East La., Miss., and Ala.
So he was given command at 18th Jyly, be he took command on 15th Aug. Perhaps problems with traveling from Kirby-Smith Confederacy to his department?
In other way he would be unable to take command of AoT immediatly.
Also he was just recently promoted, I don`t think he could get another promotion so fast?
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Also we must remember that the new commander of AoT should be choosen from current corps commander because they had the best idea about army and enemy, about current situation. They knew the officers that serve under them or perhaps they knew them better then Lee, Beauregard or even Longstreet.
__________________ Nico, Maréchal d'Empire
Last edited by Nico_Davout; 09-10-2006 at 05:27 PM.
Would Gen. Taylor's father not have been a factor? How did old Zachary view the war. He's buried in Louisville, so he could have gone either way? Guess I need to do some reading.
Davis was under a lot of pressure to dump Johnston and get a fighter in there. Hood had been lobbying for JEJ's spot and made some claims about what he would do if he were given the chance.
So what does Davis know? He knows Hardee had turned it down once. Taylor is somewhere off in West One-Horse, Sherman is ringing the doorbell. Hood is there, has a reputation for being a fierce fighter, and has promised action.
One of Davis' gravest mistakes was in not building a cadre of 2nd-level commanders to call on in such situations.
It may well be that Stewart or Taylor could have stepped in, but was Davis comfortable with any of them?
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Davis was under a lot of pressure to dump Johnston and get a fighter in there. Hood had been lobbying for JEJ's spot and made some claims about what he would do if he were given the chance.
That is right. But remember that Hardee was doing exactly the same. On June 22, 1864, corps commander General William Hardee wrote to Jefferson Davis, "If the present system continues we may find ourselves at Atlanta before a serious battle is fought." In other words he is saying that Johnston is not going to fight for Atlanta, but if the Army commander had been changed....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
One of Davis' gravest mistakes was in not building a cadre of 2nd-level commanders to call on in such situations.
That is right, but how should he have done it? Army of Virginia needed three new corps commanders in just one month of 1864...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
It may well be that Stewart or Taylor could have stepped in, but was Davis comfortable with any of them?
Not only that, Stewart and Taylor were very recently promoted, they just could not get another promotion so fast, I think.
How could Davis have done that? I'll be flying from memory here, so expect some mistakes here. More and smaller Corps and Divisions. Had more of the promising ones been given Divisions earlier, there would have been a better choice of Corps Commanders earlier. Taylor, Cleburne, Stewart and other capable possibilities would have (presumably) had divisions sooner and quite possibly had a corps. Without that corps command, there's not much chance of getting an army.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Removing a capable commander like Joe Johnston, only meant that the war was lost for the Confederacy, and the new commander would take desperate measures, that would lead to quicker defeat.
Sam Watson wrote that when Hood took command some skirmishers near the Chattahoochee River layed down their rifles and ammunition, said the war was lost, crossed the river and headed home to Tennessee.
It's interesting how many of the common Confederate private reached the right decision that the war was lost; foresight that Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and the Confederate leadership never recognized.
Johnston did fight. His army fought at Dallas and at Kennesaw Mountain. I doubt any Union soldier would have said there was no fight west and north of the Chattahoochee River.
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. Cause for him circumstances were always in not his favor. 
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