McCulloch-Price Controversy

[SpartanGSG]

No doubt they had confrontational relationship leading up to Wilson's Creek, during, and beyong the battle through Pea Ridge. Given this and and a review of both's performance in battle, which one does history tend to smile on more frequently in an objective assessment?

[nbforrest]

McCulloch, no doubt. Who knows how well McCulloch would have done as a general if he had lived longer. He had the benefit of dying gloriously in battle, which certainly improved his image on the South. Price on the other hand has generally been regarded as a good rallying point for Missourians, but a poor general. I would tend to agree.

Respectfully

[Borderruffian]

McCULLOCH in all probabilty would not have risen above the rank of Major General and would have remained in his command, which was the securing of the Indian Territory for the CS. He was suited for this due to his frontier service as a Texas Ranger.

The rift between he and Price pretty much stemmed from the disparity between CS and State Troops at Wilsons Creek and Pea Ridge. Prices Missouri State Guard was under equipped and armed and McCulloch while having permission to support Price did not feel he had permission to invade Missouri. Couple that with McCulloch having a regular commission and Prices being a State Commission both could not seem to agree on who was under who's command.

Price while a great rallying point for Missouri troops also seemed to lack the ability to make sound decisive decisions without direction from his superiors (at least after Carthage) witness Iuka and Cornith. While he was hamstrung by serving under Van Dorn he didn't make the most of his opportunities.

Eithier way niether becomes a recognized leader. No West Point education. Jeff isn't about to give them higher command.

[rivrrat]

That idiot of a Texas Ranger, gave up a real opportunity to establish a strong Confederate presence on both sides of the Mississippi because:
1. He refused to follow up on the victory at Wilson's Creek. The "I can't invade Missouri "seems a little pale in light of the fact that he was already in Missouri.
2. His refusal to co-operate with a commander who was operating in his own territory among his own people. Who had real command experence in Mexico, simpley because he was too stupid to think stratigacally beyond his own ego.

[Borderruffian]

I don't believe that McCulloch interpreted his permission to assist Price as carte-blanc to become involved in extensive offensive operations in Missouri. His presence at Wilsons Creek was due to his proximity and the need to defend NW Arkansas. His mission was to secure the Indian Territories.

The Force he commanded was largley Arkansas State Troops under Pearce (who were already promised to Hardee upon their muster) the CS troops were only 3 Regt's strong with no Artillery. So if the troops under Pearce returned to Arkansas which seems likely then McCulloch wouldn't have had much to fight with anyway and would have had to relay on Price for Artillery and supplies.

[Borderruffian]

Originally Posted by rivrrat

.
2. His refusal to co-operate with a commander who was operating in his own territory among his own people. Who had real command experence in Mexico, simpley because he was too stupid to think stratigacally beyond his own ego.

That is the rub. Price was a Major General of State Troops with no standing in the CS Army. The immediate commander that McCulloch would have had to answer to was Hardee who had control of all CS troops in Northern Arkansas and was involved in his own fight in SE Missouri. If McCulloch was aware of the impending transfer of the bulk of Pearces State Troops (the bulk of McCullochs command BTW) and that seems likely it is doubtful that as a Brigader Gen. He would have bucked a Major General (Hardee) to follow a Major Gen. of the Missouri State Guard on an extended operation.

Prices command expieriance in the Mexican was confined to largely the New Mexico Area.He took no part in the larger campaigns and served on no large staffs. While his conduct at Taos during the rebellion was good . His invasion of Chihuahua was an act of insubordination that probably would have resulted in his court martial if not for his victory at Santa Cruz de Rosales, which in reality was a pointless battle and a pointless victory. He managed to ride it all the way to the Gov's office in Jeff City.

Price was a politician by nature and a good motivator of men but he was lacking tactically.

[whitworth]

I think the Confederacy problem was the inability to supply and support a standing army in Missouri, for any lengthy period of time.

[Coffee]

The dispute between McCulloch and Price was partly why Col. John T. Coffee faced courts martial just before the first emngagement at Newtonia. While he was occupied at the courts martial in Little Rock, Coffee's Regiment was placed under Col. Gideon Thompson and became the 6th S.W. Missouri Cavalry. The battle in 1862 at Newtonia was a Union victory and Confederate forces were routed. Col. Coffee agreed with McCulloch in his despute with Price. Coffee got drunk and told Price what he thought of his tactics in Missouri. Most of the field officers in Missouri also agreed with McCulloch in the dispute, including Capt. Jo Shelby.

Col. Coffee was aquitted of the charges and returned to Missouri and placed in command of a "paper" regiment. Maj. Gen. Thomas Hindman gave Coffee six months to raise a regiment of pardoned deserters, partisans and if possible, new conscripts.. He managed to get a squadron of pardoned deserters and partisans and occupied Union forces with his raids in southern Missouri. The second battle at Newtonia was a sound Confederate victory by Capt. Jo Shelby's Iron Brigade which included Col. Coffee's Regiment of irregulars. Col. Coffee resigned when Capt. Jo Shelby was promoted to brigidier general, and received the brigidier's star that Coffee felt he deserved. Coffee and his squadron of irregulars were ordered to report to Price in Arkansas and was detailed to Dardanelle to forage for wheat. In 1865, Coffee and his family joined Shelby's Expedition to Mexico with plans to offer services to Maximillian.

[Borderruffian]

Originally Posted by Coffee

The dispute between McCulloch and Price was partly why Col. John T. Coffee faced courts martial just before the first emngagement at Newtonia. While he was occupied at the courts martial in Little Rock, Coffee's Regiment was placed under Col. Gideon Thompson and became the 6th S.W. Missouri Cavalry. The battle in 1862 at Newtonia was a Union victory and Confederate forces were routed. Col. Coffee agreed with McCulloch in his despute with Price. Coffee got drunk and told Price what he thought of his tactics in Missouri. Most of the field officers in Missouri also agreed with McCulloch in the dispute, including Capt. Jo Shelby.

Col. Coffee was aquitted of the charges and returned to Missouri and placed in command of a "paper" regiment. Maj. Gen. Thomas Hindman gave Coffee six months to raise a regiment of pardoned deserters, partisans and if possible, new conscripts.. He managed to get a squadron of pardoned deserters and partisans and occupied Union forces with his raids in southern Missouri. The second battle at Newtonia was a sound Confederate victory by Capt. Jo Shelby's Iron Brigade which included Col. Coffee's Regiment of irregulars. Col. Coffee resigned when Capt. Jo Shelby was promoted to brigidier general, and received the brigidier's star that Coffee felt he deserved. Coffee and his squadron of irregulars were ordered to report to Price in Arkansas and was detailed to Dardanelle to forage for wheat. In 1865, Coffee and his family joined Shelby's Expedition to Mexico with plans to offer services to Maximillian.

I think the dispute between Coffee and Price had more to do with Price agreeing to go east of the Mississippi with Van Dorn more than with Coffee's agreement with McCulloch. Newtonia 1 was fought on 30 Sept of 62. McCulloch had been dead since Pea Ridge in March and Price was in the Iuka/Corinth area of Mississippi. I believe the court martial was stemming from Coffee's refusal to take his command out of the SWMO/NWARK area.

Hindman was the the one who actually placed Coffee under arrest for drunkeness. Holmes was the one who aquitted him at Prices request.

[Borderruffian]

The more I look into this Coffee-Price controversy the less likely it seems that there was any real rift between the two. Coffee elected to stay in Missouri as an independant command, Price did not recommend charges at that time nor did he seem overly annoyed.

Coffee's arrest and detention for court martial occured after the Battle of Lone Jack when 3 Missouri Regt's (one belonging to Coffee) went to Arkansas. At this time Hindman accepeted J.S. Raines resignation (for drunkness) and had Coffee arrested for drunkeness and detained awaiting court martial.

When Hindman was relieved Coffee was aquitted by Holmes at the request of Price and sent to Missouri to raise troops at Prices recommendation. He also gave good service with excellent reports from Price in the 64 Raid So any rift must have been short lived. Seems Coffees major beef was Shelby's promotion to Brigader, a post which Coffee felt he deserved.