Nashville, the first decisive battle?

[richard]

For years, the major battles of the Civil War have been studied and written about. Volumes and thousands of pages have been written about Gettesburg, Bull Run, Vicksburg, Chattanooga, Atlanta, and scores of others. .

Of all of these engagments, only one in MHO, really stands out as being "decisive". In no other battle of this war, was an army so completely defeated and chased deep behind his own lines.

It is true, that the Army of Tennessee had suffured many loses at Franklin. Many a fighter has lost a round but then rallyed to win the fight. This was not the case here. The AOT was beaten and beaten badly and never really was a factor from then on. No other battle of the war completly changed the direction of the war. The total left flank of the Confedate army had been defeated.

In many respects, Nashville could also have been called the last stand for the AOC. Sherman and 60,000 men were headed east for the sea. Hood was headed north for Louisville and then east to join with Lee. Nashville would have been a shining star for the AOT. Nashville with all its supplies and stores and nothing behind it but the Ohio river.

The Union was having a hard time paying for the war. Money to pay for the war was short. The army had not been paid for 5 months. Support for the war was waneing and people were sick and tired of all the death and distruction.

Had General Thomas not held Nashville, the outcome of the war could have very well been much different.

It have been said that Thomas was planer, not a fighter. He fought and won the battle of Mill Creek and was the last too leave the field at Chickamuga. His men were also the ones that cracked Braggs' line on Missionary Ridge. As has been said many times before, "The best offence is great defence" and this must surely hold true for General Thomas and the Battle of Nashville.

[ole]

Richard:
Interesting observation. I'd hold that the AoT was pretty well whupped before Franklin -- but nobody told them.
Ole

[samgrant]

Originally Posted by richard

In no other battle of this war, was an army so completely defeated and chased deep behind his own lines.

The Union was having a hard time paying for the war. Money to pay for the war was short. The army had not been paid for 5 months. Support for the war was waning and people were sick and tired of all the death and destruction.

Had General Thomas not held Nashville, the outcome of the war could have very well been much different.

richard,

I beg to disagree.

While the 'chased deep behind his own lines' may not apply (all battles don't involve chases), there were several in which an army were completely defeated.

There is Vicksburg certainly. (Not much room for chasing.)

One could make the case that the Southern Army of Tennessee was pretty much toast after Chattanooga.

At the point at which you allege that the U.S. was broke and there was much dissension in the North, in fact the North was rejoicing in Sherman's conquest at Atlanta (well before Hood took his troops on their valiant, tho in vain, final crusade).

Lastly, I don't think there was any question (except perhaps in the inscrutable mind of Gen. Hood) that Thomas's forces could destroy Hood's easily. (I'll grant that Gen. Grant had his qualms, but that was all about him thinking Thomas hadn't acted soon enough - he wanted to get it over with!)

I think Grant won it in the West, from Ft. Donellson to Vicksburg, and the Rebs last chance was at Chattanooga.


Sam

[johan_steele]

Richard, I'm tempted to say the dominate campaign of the War was Vicksburg and IMHO the most brilliant of the War... though I've always been fond of Lee at 2nd Manasas for a brilliant CS Campaign.

Ole brings forth a superb point, the AoT was beaten... but no one bothered to tell them that minor fact and they certainly didn't believe they were beaten. The way of the American fighting man.

Thomas chose the field of battle at Nashville, he chose the time and he totally controlled the situation. He was able to marshall superior numbers, superior firepower and overwhelming force in such a way as to eliminate any advantage for his foe. The AoT wasn't outfought, they were outgeneraled as had been their curse from their very inception. IMHO

[r_moody]

Originally Posted by samgrant

I think Grant won it in the West, from Ft. Donellson to Vicksburg, and the Rebs last chance was at Chattanooga.

Sam

Without a doubt Vicksburg was where the cream rose to the top for the Union and exposed the Confederacy's frailty. Grants army marched through swamps, ran the batteries, moved quickly through enemy territory and kept the southern forces from consolidating. A strategic masterpiece against what the South thought was an invincable city.

Rick

[richard]

In order for the Union to turn the Confederate left, the Mississippi river, the Tennessee river, and the Cumberland river had to be controled. This was accomplished first at Ft. Donaldson and Ft Henry. Grant later secured Vicksburg. Now the only thing left to do was to destroy the Army Of Tennessee or at least make it an ineffective fighing force.

In his address to the New York Historical Society on January 4, 1876, General John Watts duPuyster stated in his address "Nashville- the Decisive Battle of the Rebellion". "The most complete in its result, the finest and most perfect in its execution, strategically and tactically, the fittest of a study and an example to be referred to and cited hereafter, was Nashville."

In his book, "Decisive Battles of the U.S.A." published in 1942, General J.F.C. Fuller refers to the battle of Nashville as "That decisive battle."

It must be noted that until this time, even with victories in the east and at places such as Atlanta, Chattanooga,Vicksburg, the war trudged along. It was only 4 months after Nashville, the the war ended.

At Nashville, the Union completed it turn of the Confedrate left. The Army of Tennessee was no longer an effective fighting force.

[ole]

You make a good point, Richard, Nashville was indeed decisive. Whether it was THE decisive battle will get you arguments in that many consider it to be the last nail in the AoT's coffin.
Ole

[larry_cockerham]

I agree with most of what has been posted. Nashville was not nearly so decisive as the bebacle at Franklin. Nashville is a bigger town and gets too much pub. The two battles were much one and the same, the difference being the additional cavalry (Wilson) available to make the sweep around the Confederate left (Hillsboro Pike and Shy's Hill) as previously mentioned. The weather was a general problem causing much of the delay between the battles, Nov 30 to Dec 15. The Army of Tennessee was certainly capable of fight before 7,000 men met their maker at Franklin. Nashville was not nearly so bloody. The fight was at Franklin, aside from the collective remnants of a once proud army re-assembled at Nashville. Was that the end of the Army of Tennessee whether credit be given Franklin or Nashville? Yes. Only another recombination of wore-torn veterans assembled at Bentonville for the last round.

[Tennessee Boy]

Richard, excellent post, I hope that this one runs a while.
Although I agree with most of what you have said, guess what, I don’t agree with everything.
There were no decisive battles in the war; every engagement was a small step towards the inevitable defect of the Confederacy, but not one individual battle contributed to the defeat.
Nashville can be considered decisive, in that it destroyed the Army of Tennessee as an effective force, and hence knocked out of the equation one of the two main Confederate armies and hence was one more small step.
However, the Confederacy did not collapse because of Nashville. If Hood had retreated after Franklin and headed for the Carolinas, then they still would have still surrender in NC, ‘cos the ANV surrendered in VA in April.
Nashville was the only battle during the war, when a field army should have been destroyed, it wasn’t and that is down to Thomas, his pursuit of the AOT was a lack-luster affair and a very low point in his career and certainly the AOT was not ‘chased deep behind his own lines’. I would say the Forrest-Cheatham argument at the Tennessee River was the highlight of the retreat!
Nashville was never going to be captured, even if the AOT had arrived at Nashville without the Franklin debacle, Nashville had stronger defenses than Washington.
Ole, how can you say that the AOT was whupped before Franklin. Forget Gettysburg and Pickett, Franklin was THE charge of the war, and the whupped AOT nearly broke through those lines, with one more division and a few more hours of daylight (maybe somemore artillery), that part of the AOC would have been destroyed. Franklin was the AOT high point, it showed the Confederacy that this army was far from beaten, could charge breastworks and showed a valor that will not be surpassed in many years to come, and that’s eighteen months after the ANV high point.

[larry_cockerham]

Franklin wasn't a charge, more of a stumble into the dark. The remant of the Army of Tennessee was saved by Nat Forrest and Ed Walthall and very little more except some bloody soldiers fighting for their existence. The weather had much to do with Thomas' decisions and progress. Read the reports.