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Civil War History - The South & Western Theaters Check this forum for all South and Western Theater Questions. Included are the Western, Pacific, Trans-Mississippi, & Lower Seaboard and Gulf Approach Theaters.

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  #11  
Old 02-15-2006, 01:20 PM
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Default More info on 1st Black Confederates

ATTEMPT TO ORGANIZE A BLACK CONFEDERATE REGIMENT

Letters


SOURCE: The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies. Series IV - Volume I. Washington: Government Printing Office, 1900.

NOTE: The first letter addressed to the Confederate States' Secretary of War by a citizen of Helena, Arkansas. The second letter is the reply from that office.

HELENA, ARK., July 17, 1861.
Hon. L. P. Walker:
DEAR SIR: I wrote you a few days since for myself and many others in this district to ascertain if we could get negro regiments received for Confederate service, officered, of course, by white men. All we ask is arms, clothing, and provisions, and usual pay for officers and not one cent pay for negroes. Our negroes are too good to fight Lincoln hirelings, but as they pretend to love negroes so much we want to show them how much the true Southern cotton-patch negro loves them in return. The North cannot complain at this. They proclaim negro equality from the Senate Chamber to the pulpit, teach it in their schools, and are doing all they can to turn the slaves upon master, mistress, and children. And now, sir, if you can receive the negroes that can be raised we will soon give the Northern thieves a gorge of the negroes' love for them that will never be forgotten. As you well know, I have had long experience with negro character. I am satisfied, they are easy disciplined and less t rouble than whites in camp, and will fight desperately as long as they have a single white officer living. I know one man that will furnish and arm 100 of his own and his son for their captain. The sooner we bring a strong negro force against the hirelings the sooner we shall have peace, in my humble judgment. Let me hear from you.

Your old friend,
W. S. TURNER

********************************************

CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA, WAR DEPARTMENT
Richmond, August 2, 1861.
W. S. TURNER, Helena, Ark.:
SIR: In reply to your letter of the 17th of July I am directed by the Secretary of War to say that this Department is not prepared to accept the negro regiment tendered by you, and yet it is not doubted that almost every slave would cheerfully aid his master in the work of hurling back the fanatical invader. Moreover, if the necessity were apparent there is high authority for the employment of such forces. Washington himself recommended the enlistment of two negro regiments in Georgia, and the Congress sanctioned the measure. But now there is a superabundance of our own color tendering their services to the Government in its day of peril and ruthless invasion, a superabundance of men when we are bound to admit the inadequate supply of arms at present at the disposal of the Government.

Respectfully,
A. T. BLEDSOE,
Chief of Bureau of War.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2006, 02:44 AM
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Buffalo-Guard,

In reference to your post#11, you are incorrect in your statement that the Confederate Congress/Government was going to free any slaves that fought for the Confederacy. This was not the case, nor was any legislation passed that would have granted freedom to any slave who did serve in the Confederate army.

And I submit that the Confederate regiment you mention is not typical of what would be considered a 'slave' regiment.

Would you mind giving your source for your post? I would be curious to see where you gathered this information.

Unionblue
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Last edited by unionblue; 02-16-2006 at 02:49 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2006, 08:51 AM
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I have to take serious umbrage w/ the idea that the military spirit of the negro died out... that flys in the face of the facts of what the Apache and other Native Americans thought of the famed Buffalo Soldiers...

The Black man has given good service to this country throughout its history, often in the face of the harshest racism imaginable.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2006, 09:04 AM
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Default In answer to your question

Quote:
Originally Posted by unionblue
Buffalo-Guard,

Would you mind giving your source for your post? I would be curious to see where you gathered this information.
http://www.civilwarrichmond.com/

Please see the event section under "Black Confederates"
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2006, 09:08 AM
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Confederate Congress: Second Congress, Second Session, Senate, March 7, 1865: The Negro Soldier Question. Southern Historical Society Papers 52 (1959), pp. 452-457.
THE NEGRO SOLDIER QUESTION
At 12 o'clock House bill to increase the military forces of the Confederate States, better known as the negro soldier bill, was taken up and read. The following is the bill; A Bill to increase the military forces of the Confederate States.

The Congress of the Confederate States of America do enact, That in order to provide additional forces to repel invasion, maintain the rightful possession of the Confederate States, secure their independence and preserve their institutions, the President be and he is hereby authorized to ask for and accept from the owners of slaves the services of such number of able-bodied negro men as he may deem expedient, for and during the war, to perform military service in whatever capacity he may direct.

Section 2. That the General-in-Chief be authorized to organize the said slaves into companies, battalions, regiments and brigades, under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of War may prescribe, and to be commanded by such officers as the President may appoint.

Section 3. That while employed in the service the said troops shall receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops in the same branch of the service.

Section 4. That if, under the previous sections of this act, the President shall not be able to raise a sufficient number of troops to prosecute the war successfully, and maintain the sovereignty of the States and the independence of the Confederate States, then he is hereby authorize to call on each State, whenever he thinks it expedient for her quota of three hundred thousand troops, in addition to those subject to military service under existing laws, or so many thereof as the President may deem necessary, to be raised from such classes of the population, irrespective of colour, in each State, as the proper authorities may
determine.

Section 5. That nothing in this act shall be construed to authorize a change in the relation of the said slaves. Mr. Hunter said that as he had instructed by the Virginia Legislature to vote against his conviction, it was proper that he should give publick expression to his opinions. Since his first appearance in publick life he had recognized the right of the Legislature to instruct; and upon that body he desired to place the responsibility of the measure should it become a law. Until this morning he had abandoned the idea of publickly expressing his views; but his friends had suggested that justice to himself required that he should do so. He would necessarily have to go over much the same ground as when a kindred measure was recently under discussion in secret session.

When we left the old Government he had thought we had gotten ride forever of the slavery agitation; that we were entering into a new Confederacy of homogeneous States upon the agitation of the slavery question, which had become intolerable under the old Union, was to have no place. But to his surprise he finds that this Government assumes the power to arm the slaves, which involves also the power of emancipation.-To the agitation of this question, the assumption of this power, he dated the origin of the gloom which now overspreads our people. They knew that if our liberties were to be achieved it was to be done by the hearts and to hands of free men. It also injured us abroad. It was regarded as a confession of despair and an abandonment of the ground upon which we had seceded from the old Union. We had insisted that Congress had no right to interfere with slavery, and upon the coming into power of the party who it was known would assume and exercise that power, we seceded.

We had also then contended that whenever the two races were thrown together one must be master and the other slave, and we vindicated ourselves against the accusations of the abolitionists by asserting that slavery was the best and happiest condition of the negro. Now what does this proposition admit? The right of the central Government to put the slaves into the militia, and to emancipate at least so many as shall be placed in the military service. It is a clear claim of the central Government to emancipate the slaves.

If we are right in passing this measure we were wrong in denying to the old government the right to interfere with the institution of slavery and to emancipate slaves. Besides, if we offer slaves their freedom as a boon we confess that we were insincere, were hypocritical, in asserting that slavery was the best state for the negroes themselves. He had been sincere in declaring that the central Government had no power over the institution of slavery, and that freedom would be no boon to the negro.

He now believed, as he had formerly said in discussion on the same subject, that arming and emancipating the slaves was an abandonment of this contest-an abandonment of the grounds upon which it had been undertaken. If this is so who it is answer for the hundreds of thousands of men who had been slain in the war? Who was to answer from them before the bar of Heaven? Not those who had entered into the contest upon principle and adhered to the principle, but those who had abandoned the principle. Not for all the gold in California would he have put his name to such a measure as this unless obliged to do it by instructions. As long as he was free to vote from his own convictions nothing could have extorted it from him.

Mr. Hunter then argued the necessity of freeing the negroes if they were made soldiers. There was something in the human heart and head that tells us it must be so; when they come out scarred from this conflict they must be free. If we could make them soldiers, the condition of the soldier being socially equal to any other in society, we could make them officers, perhaps, to command white men. Some future ambitious President might use the slaves to seize the liberties of the country and put the white men under his fee.-The Government had not power under the Constitution to arm and emancipate the slaves, and the Constitution granted no such great powers by implication.

Mr. Hunter then showed from statisticks that no considerable body of negro troops could be raised in the States over which the Government had control, without stripping the country of the labour absolutely necessary to produce food. He thought there was a much better change of getting the large number of deserters back to the army than of getting slaves into it. The negro abhored the profession of a soldiers. The commandant of conscripts, with authority to impress twenty thousand slaves had, between last September and the present time, been able to get but four thousand; and of these thirty-five hundred had been obtained in Virginia and North Carolina, and five hundred from Alabama. If he, armed with all the powers of impressment, could not get them as labourers, how will we be able to get them as soldiers? Unless they volunteer they will go to the Yankee; if we depend upon their volunteering we can't get them, and those we do get will desert to the enemy, who can offer them a better price than we can. The enemy can offer them liberty, clothing, and even farms at our expense. Negroes now were deterred from going to the enemy only by the fear of being put into the army. If we put them in they all go over.

In conclusion, he considered that the measure, when reviewed as to its expediency, was worse than as a question of principle. He was not satisfied that the majority of the army were in favour of the measure. The army had been told that the measure was necessary, and they had acquiesced. He did not believe that the heroes of Manassas, Fredericksburg and Cold Harbour were holding out their hands to the negroes to come and save them. He did not believe that our troops would fight with that constancy which should inspire troops in the hour of battle, when they knew that their flanks were being held by negroes. He repeated that he would have voted against the bill except fort the instructions which put an obligation upon him. He should endeavour to mould the bill so as to carry our the true spirit of those instructions. He believed it would pass, and hoped that it might not have the evil effects that he apprehended.

Mr. Graham also opposed the bill. He meant to hold out no threat, but he would say that when Congress adopted such a measure the States would feel called upon the consider whether such an inroad upon the Constitution did not call for additional guards being thrown around that instrument. He considered the adoption of the measure as almost a virtual abandonment of the principles of the contest.

Mr. Graham protested against the right of the Virginia Legislature to instruct its Senators after the mature deliberation of the Senate had disposed of the measure, which affected not the State of Virginia alone, but every State between the Potomac and the Rio Grande. Mr. Graham argued at length against the constitutionally and expediency of the measure.

Mr. Semmes spoke in advocacy of the bill. He advocated it as a necessity. It was better to throw over part of the cargo than to lose the ship and cargo together. It was urged by General Lee, and the consequences which would follow would not be so bad as had been represented. He hoped the bill would be so modified as to conform to the instructions given by the State of Virginia to her Senators.

Mr. Orr opposed the bill.

Mr. Burnett urged its passage.

The Senate resolved into secret session.
EVENING SESSION
After recess the Senate met at half-past seven o'clock, P. M., and resumed consideration of the negro soldier bill.

Mr. Oldham spoke in advocacy of the policy of arming the slaves.

After further debate the Senate adjourned, without taking a vote on the bill.





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  #16  
Old 02-16-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
The Confederate Congress authorized negro troops on 13 March 1865.

*

.
NO NO NO NO

This error is repeated over and over again, the CS Congress NEVER forbid negro troops and therefor never had to authorize them.

As per the US Army's own history site "13 March 1865 Confederate President Jefferson Davis signed legislation authorizing the enlistment of up to 300,000 slaves, who would be emancipated if they honorably discharged their duties. "

http://www.redstone.army.mil/history...ate/chron2.htm

SLAVES NOT NEGRO'S

Yes nearly all slaves were negro's, HOWEVER NOT ALL NEGRO'S WERE SLAVES

The Confederate Army had many FREE BLACKS in it's ranks, the evidence is overwhelming, contrary to how much some would like it otherwise.

I constantly see the words slave and negro used here as if the same, there was a great difference between free blacks, of which there were significan number, and slaves. The arming of slaves was a major decision, the arming of free blacks another and far easier decision.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2006, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unionblue
Buffalo-Guard,

In reference to your post#11, you are incorrect in your statement that the Confederate Congress/Government was going to free any slaves that fought for the Confederacy. This was not the case, nor was any legislation passed that would have granted freedom to any slave who did serve in the Confederate army....

Unionblue

Technically, this is correct.....

...but Lee and the War Dept. issued concurrent orders (along with the Act of Congress) that no slave would be accepted for military service unless given his freedom.

The members of the Confederate Congress, generally, did not believe they had the authority to grant freedom...
...that it should be left to the states to make that decision.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2006, 01:02 PM
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Default Back to what this thread was about......



Pitiful......really pitiful -

A subdivision located right over "Civil War Trenches"

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=16...83&layer=DRG25

...(the zig-zag black lines are the trench system)

Last edited by Battalion; 02-16-2006 at 01:33 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2006, 01:11 PM
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Default Black solders

I have been pushing this. It's not a agenda from a radical viewpoint. I trully believe that the Black solders side, both North and South has not beed told. He deserves that to be done. We own it to ourselfs as Americans.

If electing to propagate the story of the Confederate solder is the true since and reason for the SCV as it was when founded, then I agree with them and you. If their sole reason for existence since the failed coop of last year is not to foster another agenda “Bring back the Confederacy” I again agree with you. I want no part of the Confederacy or groups wishing its re-birth.

But what I have tried to do is tell the untold story of the Black solder of the Civil War. From the first attempt in Arkansas and New Orleans to the birth of the 54th and start of the Buffalo Solder. Be he Confederate or be he Union. His story diserves to be told. We have failed to do so in the past because it is unbelievable to some or publicly incorrect to others.
Northerners, at least the ones I know here in New York, sometimes tend to say that the north welcomed runaways and freedmen as equals. Well you'all know that is not true. If this was, why did the north, just as the south in post war years have white’s only bathroom’s restaurants and other unjust rules against a person simply because he was black. We did the same to the Japanese in WWII. Why not the Germans in America? Because there were too many of them as opposed to the Japanese.
No, I will go on telling the story of the black American solder whether he be Confederate, whether he be Union.

I have a grandson who is ½ black and ½ white. He is 9 years old. Last night funny enough, I was talking to him about Fredrick Douglas. He did not know who he was. He told me that his teacher only talked about Martin Luther King. Amazing, and its Black History Month. He did not know what the 13th amendment was or who Robert Smalls or Elizabeth Freedmen was either. Again, reasons why I feel so strongly about this.
I guess this is my point. My son-in-law who passed away several years ago, understood why I do what I do and appreciated the telling of the black. That is the whole story, north and south, slave and non-slave.

Thats why I want and appreciate everyones dicussion and thoughts on this matter. It's through this manner of open fourms that we learn from each other. I may not allways like wnat I read, but so be it.

But the truth be told, The Civil War will continue to be faught on tables like this. It's very hard to place ourself in that time and think as they did. We only have this version of history to rely on and as we all know history is writen by the victor.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2006, 02:08 PM
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An excellent, elegant post, Buffalo-Guard.

The soldiers, north and south, black and white, are the true focus of very nearly all of us. To be sure, agendas and attitudes sometimes creep in, but I will submit that most of them have as a focus absolute accuracy.

When the subject of black confederates comes up, arguments are more along the lines of exactly how many, rather than denying that there were any. That there were some, none, or thousands makes me no nevermind. If he was a soldier or served the army in a menial capacity, willingly or not, he served and deserves the honor of his country's flag flying over his eternal resting place and the respect he earned with his blood.

Again, thank you for your efforts.
Ole
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