Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
The CSA Constitution, no more affirms the right of secession than the Original Constitution. Davis' above quoted words, refers to the rights given up by the states, not the ones retained (which theoretically, was what the right of secession was) Which rights those might be, had to be inferred. If there was no such thing as a right of secession, in the first place, then it is not a right retained in the second.
That Davis was convinced that the CSA Constitution was clear on the subject, is interesting, but, we have only his word on it, because the document itself is silent.
The silence of the Old Constitution, crushed many fine spun theories during it's history and one of them was Unilateral Secession.
Who knows what fine spun theories would have fallen before the silence of the Confederate Constitution (had it survived). Especially Four Score and Seven Years into the future.
I can't find any comments by President Davis reputing the sovereign nature of the states.
"...in the judgment of the sovereign States now composing this Confederacy.."
"The right solemnly proclaimed at the birth of the States, and which has been affirmed and reaffirmed in the bills of rights of States subsequently admitted into the Union of 1789, undeniably recognize in the people the power to resume the authority delegated for the purposes of government. Thus the sovereign States here represented proceeded to form this Confederacy,.."
I would say absolutely the sovereign nature of the states
was never taken back by the Confederate President.
You'd be wrong.
"I deeply regret that the President, whom I have regarded as a lead State Rights man, should have given in his adhesion to the doctrines of unlimited congressional powers."
Governor Joe Brown of Georgia to Alexander H. Stephens, Marietta, GA, July 2, 1862, in Toombs, Stephens, and Cobb, Correspondence, 597-99.
"You can best devise the means for establishing that entire cooperation of the State and central governments which is essential to the well-being of both at all times, but is now indispensable to their very existence."
President Davis as quoted in Journal of the Congress of the Confederate States of America, 58th Cong., 2d session, Doc. 234,2: 226.
"It is not in my opinion wise or proper to encourage the idea of retaining in each State its own troops for its own defense and thus giving strength to the fatal error of supposing that this great war can be waged by the Confederate States severally and unitedly, with the least hope of success. Our safety--our very existence--depends on the united body, to be used anywhere and everywhere as the exigencies of the contest may require for the good of the whole."
President Jefferson Davis to the senators and representatives of Arkansas, Richmond, VA, March 30, 1863, in Davis, Jefferson Davis, Constitutionalist, 5: 460-63.
"Our whole system of government has been gradually passing into a new phase--common abroad--but not known to us in the past--all powers are fast trending to the Executive control...I confess the shameful wish on the part of the Confederate government to overlook, and slight even, the States, bodes not well for the future."
Lawrence Keitt to Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, Headquarters, Mt. Pleasant, SC, April 13, 1864, Stephens Papers, Library of Congress.
"On March 28 President Davis delivered a message to the Senate, telling his countrymen, "There is also embarrassment from conflict between state and Confederate legislation...on conscription." He pleaded with Congress for a conscription act, which would help raise a large, standing army for defense. The next day debate erupted. Davis wrote that a general conscription law was needed to provide for uniformly organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia to execute the laws of the Confederate States. Williamson S. Oldham of Texas bluntly shouted that Congress "Does not have the power to force citizens into the Army of the Confederate States." Fellow Texan Louis Wigfall disagreed, saying he "is always will be a state rights man, but the right to make war was transferred by the States to the central government."
As the debate continued, Wigfall's temperature rose. "Cease this child's play!" he screamed. "The enemy are in some portions of almost every State in the Confederacy; they are upon the borders of Texas; Virginia is enveloped by them. We need a large army. How are you going to get it?...No man has any individual rights, which come in conflict with the welfare of the country." In response Oldham said, "It was the object and theory of our government to secure and preserve the liberties of the people. If they are to be destroyed, I don't care a fig whether it is effected by the General or State governments." The topic was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs, where it would live another day--and longer. But by April 16 Congress passed the First Conscription Act, which drafted for military service all white males between the ages of eighteen and thiry-five for a period of three years, unless the war came to an end."
From the book, Dixie Betrayed, by David J. Eicher, Chapter 7, State Rightisms, pg. 106.
State sovereignty was being reputed, one action at a time, from almost the very beginning of the Confederacy's existence.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
"After a careful consideration of all sources of discontent in North Carolina, I have concluded that it will be perhaps impossible to remove it, except by making some effort at negotiation with the enemy."
Governor Vance, NC, December 30, 1863, to President Davis, in Davis, Jefferson Davis, Constitutionalist, 6: 141-42; Vance to Jefferson Davis, Raleigh, Dec. 30, 1863, Vance Papers.
"The final plunge which I have been dreading and avoiding, that is to separate me from a large number of my political friends, is about to be made. It is now a fixed policy of W. Holden and others to call a convention in May to take N.C. back to the United States, and the agitation has already begun. Resolutions advocating this course were prepared here a few days ago in the Standard office and sent to Johnson County to be presented at a public meeting next week. If I should go down before the current I shall perish up it must be so, at bay, destroying many a foe."
Gov. Vance of N.C. to an unnamed correspondent, Raleigh, NC, Jan. 2, 1864, Vance Papers.
"A dangerous conspiracy exists in some of the counties of southwestern Virginia and in the neighboring portions of North Carolina and Tennessee, which it is found impracticable to suppress by the ordinary course of law...I deem it my duty to recommend the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus in order that full efficacy may be given to the military power for the repression of the evil."
Jefferson Davis in a speech to Congress, Richmond, VA, Nov. 7, 1864, in Richardson, ed., Compilation of Messages, 1: 498; Davis, Jefferson Davis, Constitutionalist, 6: 384-98.
In conclusion, Jefferson Davis and the Confederate Congress could not in any way permit an amendment that permitted secession, by peaceful means or any other. If they had openly acknowledged such a 'sovereign right' to exist, the Confederacy would have fallen apart far more quickly than the short, four year life span that it did enjoy.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
No one tried to leave? West Virginia did leave. As has been shown NC looked real hard at it as did Georgia. East TN tried... but that idea was squashed pretty violently to the point that whenever CS troops where in the erea they treated it as enemy territory under their occupation. Norh Georgia was pure US from the start. As were parts of Texas, where if you opened your mouth too loud a rope got set around your neck. Kentucky didn't want in but that didn't stop the CS from invading to change their mind... after which Kentucky was squarely in the US camp.
In short the CS was not the south, it was certainly not the 100% loyal entitiy modern apologists would have us believe it was.
Oddly the area that were pro US, had minimal slavery... odd that.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
...
Oddly the area that were pro US, had minimal slavery... odd that.
I saw a study of KY once, breaking down voting related to secession/the Confederacy by county and plotted against slave ownership in the state. The results were pretty clear: counties with a strong interest in slavery favored the Confederacy, while counties with few slaves tended to favor the Union.
There was a county in north GA which voted to secede and join TN at one point in 1861 (after GA voted to secede, before Ft. Sumter was atacked, IIRR). There was also one in TN that voted to secede and join GA when the first attempt at secession in TN failed.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Interesting items on Davis, though I still don't see him repudiating states rights. As far as I know, West Virginia was a creation of Lincoln. The protocol for admitting a new state was not followed.
This doesn't mean Davis wasn't overwhelmed. A draft is always bad, and Davis had a military draft. His costs for the war eventually went beyond the damage of the tariffs.
There is a reason there are more statues of Robert E. Lee in the South, and few of Davis!
Interesting items on Davis, though I still don't see him repudiating states rights. As far as I know, West Virginia was a creation of Lincoln. The protocol for admitting a new state was not followed.
The "protocol" for admitting a new state was also not followed for Texas in 1846; there was substantial reason to believe then that the admission process for Texas was unconstitutional. The admission of Hawaii also appears quite shady; perhaps "seizure" would be a better term for what was done there.
In the case of West Virginia, the people of those counties tended to have strong economic and social ties to the Ohio Valley and Pittsburgh regions; they had little interest in slavery; and were more inclinded to align with the rest of the state on policy matters. For instance, in the election of 1860 the western counties of Virginia generally favored the Morrill Tariff, making them closer to iron-and-steel-working Pennsylvanians than to Tidewater Virginians politically.
Those people in West Virginia were generally opposed to secession; their representatives to the convention in Richmond in April of 1861 were at one point afraid to walk from their hotel to the Governor's house because of the violent and drunken crowds in the streets. They were generally opposed to secession from the US in 1861; were outvoted in the convention and the election that followed. They felt abused by their fellow Virginians, and so refused to follow them.
Surely Lincoln supported them in that, and the legalities were more winked at than followed to the letter. Hardly surprising, since you can find similar circumstances in many wars. In practice, they were the "loyal" government of Virginia and gave themselves permission to leave Virginia and become a new state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Psychomike
This doesn't mean Davis wasn't overwhelmed. A draft is always bad, and Davis had a military draft.
The Confederacy did not have a draft. They had a universal conscription with exemptions and substitutes. The Union had a draft. Given the choice between the two, most people would prefer a draft to straight conscription.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Psychomike
His costs for the war eventually went beyond the damage of the tariffs.
What tariffs are you talking about?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Wonderful excerpts from your book -- It really has brought more to light.
As Artie Johnson would say on "Laugh In;" [German accent] "Verrrrrrry Interesting!."
I also have to agree with West Virginia separating itself from the rest of Virginia. Their leaving in the early parts of the Civil War was, to me--the warning 'stress fracture,' as to the success of the Confederate States.
Just some thoughts.
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
I have had the good fortune to see the proposed 'secession' amendment in it's entirety:
"A bill to propose an amendment to the Constitution of the Confederate States of America.
Sec. 1. It is enacted by the Congress of the Confederate States, two-thirds of both Houses thereof concurring, that the following amendment to the Constitution of the Confederate States of America be, and the same is hereby proposed, and when ratified by the Legislature of three fourths of the several States, shall be part of said Constitution, and shall be inserted therein as clause 2d, section 1st, of article 5th, to wit:
When any State being aggrieved by any act of Congress, shall by Convention, declare the same to be unconstitutional, Congress, if in session, and if not, the President shall convene it for that purpose, shall immediately call a Convention of the States to consider said act, and if not affirmed by two-thirds of said Conventions, the vote to be taken by States, it shall be void and no law, but if affirmed, it shall stand; and if affirmed and no adjustment can be made by amendment or otherwise, satisfactory to the complaining State, and it determine to secede from the Confederacy, it shall do so in peace, but shall be entitled to its pro rata share of the public property and liable for its pro rata share of the public debt, to be determined and settled by negotiation.
Sec. 2. That the President shall transmit to the Governor of each State a copy of this act, to be submitted by him to the Legislature thereof for ratification."
(Southern Historical Society Papers, Volume LXVIII, pg. 60.)
There is no indication in the SHSP of what transpired during the secret session that the Senate ordered this proposed amendment to be discussed at.
Two days later during the regular Senate session Mr. Johnson of Georgia who originally introduced the amendment, moved to withdraw it and his motion was granted.
This proposed amendment was brought before the Confederate Senate on February 5, 1863.
Comments?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
CSA Constitution did not permit secession. 
Linear Mode
