Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I had been taught that just as it was unnecessary to state it in the original Constitution it was the same for the Confederate. England did not free a land mass, it freed individual colonies.
England did not free anything! The American army first under the Second Continental Congress from 1775 and by 1781 under the Congress of the Confederation freed the United States of America from Great Britain militarily in 1781 and politically by the signing of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 and the ratification of it by the Congress of the Confederation in 1784. The Brits were done after Yorktown and the USA was a free nation under the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.
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"Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
England did not free anything! The American army first under the Second Continental Congress from 1775 and by 1781 under the Congress of the Confederation freed the United States of America from Great Britain militarily in 1781 and politically by the signing of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 and the ratification of it by the Congress of the Confederation in 1784. The Brits were done after Yorktown and the USA was a free nation under the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.
The separation of the American Colonies from Britain was a secession...not a revolution.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
The separation of the American Colonies from Britain was a secession...not a revolution.
The American Revolution was not a revolution? Flat-out wrong, as I am sure you know. The concept of "secession" claimed by the Confederate states did not exist at the time -- and if you want to think that this is somehow similar to the Roman use of the phrase secessio plebis, you are also wrong on that.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
The separation of the American Colonies from Britain was a secession...not a revolution.
Funny that, as nearly as I can figure out, pretty much all the Founding Fathers diagreed with you.
I guess that's why it is popularly known as the "American Secession" or the "Secessionary War."
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
The separation of the American Colonies from Britain was a secession...not a revolution.
This is the type of nonsense that we have come to expect! King George III said, "to open and avowed rebellion","that such rebellion","to use their utmost endeavours to withstand and suppress such rebellion","the persons now in open arms and rebellion against our Government" to his loyal subjects in his response to the American Revolution in September of 1775. Just cannot seem to find the word, secession. http://www.historyplace.com/unitedst.../proclaims.htm
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"Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
I had been taught that just as it was unnecessary to state it in the original Constitution it was the same for the Confederate. England did not free a land mass, it freed individual colonies.
But what is the fear of leaving?
We helped end Yugoslavia. We are now splitting Kosovo, an Iranian backed pro Al Qaeda pro Islamist state to leave Serbia.
Why is that ok, but forbidden here? Why is it ok for U.S. troops to fight and die for states which despise us to leave their union, but we can't?
Timing.
It is extremely hard to generalize the American Civil War with our current political and social issues. To me, it's just playing fast and loose with history in order to justify a modern, neo-confederate agenda.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
The separation of the American Colonies from Britain was a secession...not a revolution.
I guess you didn't get a chance to watch the HBO series, "John Adams" or you would know the people of that time had no problem in recognizing what they were attempting.
A Revolution.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Though the Confederate Constitution that might be read, as to leave in a peaceful manner --they sure did not do so, when the 'infant' confederacy shot on Fort Sumpter, General Twiggs forced US Army into a 'coup de tat' and forcing the US Forts and personnel, to either leave or be prisoners of war, which hadn't been officially declared and or recognized.
So--for me, the Confederacy was seeing in others, e.g. US Government, what they saw in themselves--.
Fort Sumpter was the line crossed.
A peaceful annexing was when the original plans for Washington, DC/Federal City; included a portion of what is now Arlington County; as to make a 10 mile square. Unhappy, the individuals of 'then' Alexandria County petitioned the US Government to reverse it's inclusion into the creation of Washington, DC/Federal City. It was peacefully returned to the Commonwealth of Virginia. Not a shot was fired and exchanges of Government were peacefully achieved. This 'example' could have been used as a template for those states to remove themselves from the Union.
This is why one does not see a perfect 10 mile square, of what was hoped and planned to be a "Federal City."
Just some thoughts.
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
M.E. Wolf,
An excellent post of some rather profound and logical thoughts.
Thank you for them.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
CSA Constitution did not permit secession. Note the theme of this thread.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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