Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Poor ol' DJpsychomike, even when he starts out relatively rational, he cannot help letting his fear and loathing of the United States drive him to the edge of incoherency.
its a good overview- so no I'm not ranting at all. The problem howver is that when I first read this I got the published edition which goes out to about 500 people. Finding out McCarthy was right, and how infiltrated our government was and that the CIA broke its charter at inception caused some lively debates!
All the other points in my post are easily verifiable on google. That you think they are out there, means you may not be ready for the truth.
If only DJ Psycomike knew anything about Critical Reading much less Critical Thinking, he might have had a chance to actually learn something really new from the 'Pond' But, Alas!
I actually love the STAR TROOPERS movie, especially the scene where the military has co-ed showering! The number of hot actresses in that film are mind numbing. Does it capture the feel of the book? Well, it captures the humor, but no it doesn't capture the book. I actually like the old time radio adaptations of his books better. The movie was embarrasing, the book was superb.
But Denise Richards? She was a ten then! Still is I believe.
The other declassified info I've been reading is the wealth of material released by Germany from WW 2. Diddyrick, I would say most people would say what you say about the second war. Sadly I am no longer one of them. This bothers me, a lot. I don't trust the US govt and I trust the Nazi Govt considerably less. I grew up in a Legion Hall, my earliest heroes were the MEN who won that war from combat pilots and dog faces to ordnance officers. A family friend is a man who survived a Japanese camp and a little stroll called the Baatan Death March. In Jr High I was gifted to have a survivor of Sobibor come and talk to our class and the parish priest who introduced him was a Jesuit who prior to joining the order had been one of the first Army Rangers who had a wee little stroll up a hill at Normandy. My best friends father was a paratrooper who jumped into Normandy w/ the 82nd. I'll take their words about what happened in Europe and Japan over the revisionist garbage thank you very much.
Don't know exactly when I realized our history was propaganda, was it when I discovered the Japanese had tried to surrender to us for months before the atomic bombs? Was it when I discovered the rapes of the women prisoners in the death camps by the "liberating" of the camps? Or the 150,000 German women impregnated by the advancing Russians? Not to mention all those raped? Wondering why we didn't bomb ANY of the train tracks going to camps? Or that laws were passed to keep survivors of Camps from coming here- so the public wouldn't learn what allowed the Russians to do? Should I address you to another family friend who was on a troop ship on his way to Japan in prep for Operation Downfall? You are treading very thin ice here as it seems you are calously implying US soldiers systematicaly raped their way through a concentration camp which is not only sick slander but grotesque and offensive to the men who liberated such. I've met several of those men who liberated such camps and I would challenge you or anyone to claim such atrocities of them... to their faces. Both who remain would step out of their chairs or from behind their walker and take such a fool behind the woodshed for a well deserved beating. And before you say you were talking only about the Russians I have dealt with a Colonel of the Soviet Air Force whose father drank himself to death trying to forget the horrors he witnessed in one of those camps, as a prisoner.
A good war? Maybe we should ask the over 200 million Europeans we turned over to Stalin what "good" it did for them. Or the thousands of U.S. troops at wars end that ended up in Russian camps to be used as bargaining chips- never heard from again.
Now, it has been made clear by me that there is a forum for your modern politically driven anti US rants elswhere. I don't enjoy locking and moving threads but this thread is on VERY thin ice. If you have no intention of keeping it even REMOTELY on subject post it somewhere else.
I'm going to be spending a large part of the next three days honoring the dead who served this nation. I might suggest you take a second or two and reflect upon those men. They deserve better.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
"The more I have read on the Pond the more I realize we need Intel agencies that come from the private sector."
Mike...I have one word for you....Blackwater.
"The other declassified info I've been reading is the wealth of material released by Germany from WW 2. Diddyrick, I would say most people would say what you say about the second war. Sadly I am no longer one of them."
I've said a lot of things about WW2, Mike. Could you be a little more specific?
"Don't know exactly when I realized our history was propaganda, was it when I discovered the Japanese had tried to surrender to us for months before the atomic bombs? Was it when I discovered the rapes of the women prisoners in the death camps by the "liberating" of the camps? Or the 150,000 German women impregnated by the advancing Russians? Not to mention all those raped? Wondering why we didn't bomb ANY of the train tracks going to camps? Or that laws were passed to keep survivors of Camps from coming here- so the public wouldn't learn what allowed the Russians to do?"
Sources, please.
"A good war? Maybe we should ask the over 200 million Europeans we turned over to Stalin what "good" it did for them. Or the thousands of U.S. troops at wars end that ended up in Russian camps to be used as bargaining chips- never heard from again."
Did we turn them over? Then I really am off the mark on my history! I was given to understand that those 200 million Europeans were under Soviet control! Thank you for correcting my ignorance, Mike....
You can't have it both ways; for us to liberate those 200 million, we would have to have fought a war with the Soviets that would have made our participation in the ETO look like a cakewalk.
Good day, Sir!
__________________ David
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person" diddyriddick
Last edited by diddyriddick; 05-23-2008 at 04:47 PM.
Now, it has been made clear by me that there is a forum for your modern politically driven anti US rants elswhere. I don't enjoy locking and moving threads but this thread is on VERY thin ice. If you have no intention of keeping it even REMOTELY on subject post it somewhere else.
I'm going to be spending a large part of the next three days honoring the dead who served this nation. I might suggest you take a second or two and reflect upon those men. They deserve better.
Shane,
As I write this, I am in Nashville, at a big family party to celebrate the wedding of one of my nephews: 2nd-generation West Point (his father in the class of 1969, myother brother-in-law was class of 1971), 2 tours in Iraq with the 101st.
My father is here, age 90: Leyte and Okinawa with the 96th Infantry, one of only four US Army divisions to win a Presidential Unit Citation in WWII, scheduled for the landing outside Tokyo if the war had gone that far. His company (192 TO&E) took a little over 600 casualties in those two campaigns, all causes; at one point, he had 7 men on the morning report. Dad was never an officer, but for three days in Okinawa he was the highest ranking soldier in the front-line for his battalion. Last year I was at a ceremony in Philadelphia where retired General Shinseki was pinning medals on Dad's chest. On Leyte, his company was sent back to clear an airfield of Japanese paratroopers.
Another West Point graduate I know is Clair Conzelman, who's working as a civilian these days at an Army base in Ft. Knox. He was a Cavalry officer, 3rd-generation West Point on both sides. One grandfather was in the Philippines when WWII broke out, survived the Death March only to die when the US sank a Japanese ship he was being transported on. His other grandfather was at Kasserine Pass. His father did more than one tour in Vietnam.
A good friend of mine had an Uncle who received a Medal of Honor in WWII. My father saw four men in the actions that led to their Medal of Honor awards.
When I see people passing off nonsense like Beowulf is doing here, I remember people like these and dozens of others I have met through the years.
I also recall things they like to omit. Although I don't think it has been mentioned here, people speaking in this vein will also criticize the US for dropping the A-bombs. I asked my Dad about that once. His reply was that all his men cheered like mad when the news came: it meant they would live. But beyond that, no one who wails about the Japanese deaths ever seems to mention the 400,000 Allied POWs' down in SE Asia and Indonesia who had their lives saved by the A-bombs. The Japanese had already ordered their execution, and had to fly a Prince of the royal house down to make sure the orders were not carried out when they surrendered.
When I think about the war in Europe, I like to think of a man I met working Summers at the company my Dad worked at. Driving home one day, Dad said he had noticed I'd been working with Me. Berman, and asked what I thought of him. Ok, I said, but he really had no personality. Oh, really? said Dad, and proceeded to explain about Mr. Berman to me.
It seems Mr. berman had grown up in Gernmany, and when the Nazis came to power he carefully packed himself up and moved to Poland. But 1939 came, and Mr. Berman saw the handwriting on the wall. So he started drifting further East, looking for a way out -- and the Soviets invaded, scooped him up as an undesirable Jew, and sent him off to Siberia.
Mr. Berman was a merchant, a trader, and he managed to survive by his wits in the camps. You might even say he thrived. One day two guards hauled him into the commandant's office, beat the living daylights out of him, and then the commondant told him that now he had a partner.
Mr. Berman thought that over, and couldn't see how it would end well. One day the commondant, or some prisoner, would decide Mr. Berman's time had come. So he quietly built up a small reserve. There was not usually money in the camps, but there were things of value, particularly small pieces of jewelry and stones which could be hidden. When he thought he had enough, he walked out.
It wasn't all that hard. There were no real walls. There were thousands of miles of wilderness, wolves and bears and even tigers, outlaws, and a bounty on the head of escapees. The locals were more than willing to collect.
But Mr. Berman walked out through all that. He found work along the way, and he traded, and he followed a path steadily to the East. He worked his way down through Korea in the Summer of 1945, somehow staying ahead of the arriving Soviets, and made it to American lines later that year. From there to America and a new life, where I met him in the Summer of 1972.
That's the man I thought had no personality.
Life is real easy if you can make believe the messy details don't exist.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
I only made those comments in passing because they are no longer hidden facts. So this is a quick proof with links then back to the Civil War.
I think glory can be found in war by all sides, which has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHY THEY ARE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Balboa from Italy was a great fighter pilot, but that doesn't excuse Italy in Ethiopia.
I never said U.S. troops raped their way to Germany- contrary to popular belief, the U.S. didn't take Germany! Russia did, and here is what we covered up:
The first rapes in East Prussia were an eruption of pure rage, bloody revenge for Wehrmacht atrocities on Soviet soil in the march to Stalingrad; soldiers destroyed homes, raped women -- some as young as 12 -- and killed children. But revenge could not have been the sole motive, for even Soviet prisoners of war and Jewish survivors were not safe; some, as young as 16, were raped by the soldiers who set them free. By the time the first libidinous Soviet wandered into the diarist's cellar a few months later -- pointing menacingly to a teenage girl and asking "How many year?" -- German women appeared to the Red Army simply as rightful spoils of war.
Though the precise statistics will never be known, existing estimates are breathtaking: 2 million women were raped in Germany, many of them more than once. In Berlin alone, hospital statistics indicate between 95,000 and 130,000 rape victims. Many women killed themselves rather than "concede" -- as some women put it -- to the Soviets; some men killed themselves and their wives rather than suffer the indignity of rape.
Who was put on trial for this? Now. how did this journey begin for me? Ten years ago I made a decision that would take me down a path few have ever tread. As a history and research buff, with a special interest in military Intel history, I decided to re-examine the basic "historical truths" I had been taught from scratch. The result was to discover two histories- one taught in schools based on press conferences, political bias and propaganda. The other was military history based on diplomacy, which of course includes Intel, and is very Aristotelian. Who wins or loses, who was right or wrong, is very clear in military history. Most of diplomacy is secret and is about 70% of what goes on. So when CIA, or any branch of our military Intel release info you would think it would cause historians, the media, the curious to rush in. Re-write the books. Discard the erroneous ones. Sadly the answer is no. The "pop culture" version of history remains.
Russia, the UK and Germany have released almost all of their World War 2 reports. We have not followed suit.
The Euro culture has more interest in this material than we do. Their coverage of released material, often found in THE ECONOMIST, THE GUARDIAN, THE TELEGRAPH, DER STERN, etc, is about CLASSIFIED material newly released here, covered in major spreads abroad.
Far less so here.
Our history has been so entwined with political spins that it is safe to say- from our leaders to our voters, few know the real stories anymore.
I decided to look into the belief we are all taught, that war with Japan ended because of the use of the Atomic Bombs. By the time of the Atomic bombs we had destroyed over 3 million Japanese civilians and had napalmed and "firebombed" into oblivion over 60 cities.
This was troubling for me. After wiping out over 60 cities, exactly why were the Japanese ready to give up fighting to the last man? If everyone was ready to die, napalm or atomic bombs, what difference would how they died make? The Japanese, like the American public at this point, had no way to imagine a nuclear bomb. When Einstein conceived of the idea- most of the scientific community was against him. If scientists couldn't fathom this concept, I'm supposed to believe Japanese fishermen could?
Something wasn't adding up.
Then I heard revisionist historians say the bombing wasn't to end the war, it was to scare the Communist Soviet Union.
The only problem with that theory is that it was obviously thought of after the McCarthy era. Our government was in cahoots with Stalin in that they allowed hundreds of spies to infiltrate our government and refused to kick them out. We turned 200 million Europeans over to Stalin ( hundreds committed suicide in front of our consulates and embassies, begging not to be handed over to Stalin. Our government at the time couldn't understand why they wouldn't want the benefits of communism.) The U.S. still trusted Stalin blindly when the nukes were dropped.
The above is the amazing true story of how the pen ended the Japanese will to fight- and got the people to trust them over their own government controlled press- simply by telling the truth!
Oh yeah I forgot. The GI's abandoned by Democrats at war's end:
The pool of foreign prisoners of war included hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans. What happened to these American G.I.s is a chapter in our nation's history that has, for too long, gone unwritten.
The disappearance of Americans into the Gulag was intentional. If it were a mistake, it would have been corrected in diplomatic channels decades ago. The very nature of Clandestine Operations means they are not accidents. They are not acknowledged and never revealed.
Only the Soviets kept POWs incommunicado after the wars ended.
In World War II, perhaps 6000-7000 American POWs went from Nazi Prison camps to the Gulag, partially because the Western Allies would not forcibly return Russian POWs who had fought for Germany against Stalin. Stalin could not exact vengeance on those he considered traitors, so he took a measure of revenge against the soldiers of those who denied him his will. American POWs of the Nazis, became hostages of the Communists.
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