Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
"Those who cling to the untrue doctrine that violence never settles anything would be advised to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Nations and peoples who forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."
I love Heinlein. Especially his book, Starship Troopers.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Have to confess, Blue. I've never read Heinlein. I saw the quote in a book that I read sometime back on the 100 greatest battles of all time. It works.
David
__________________ David
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person" diddyriddick
The quote you posted comes from the book by Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers.
You ought to read the book and avoid the movie of the same title, the director got it entirely wrong.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
What unionblue said. The movie has little to do with the book besides sharing a title. Heinlein was a bit of a fascist, but a good writer. Especially "hard" science fiction.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
What unionblue said. The movie has little to do with the book besides sharing a title. Heinlein was a bit of a fascist, but a good writer. Especially "hard" science fiction.
Fascist?
And here I thought the man was more of a realist!
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Thank you for your service in the military Unionblue.
I actually love the STAR TROOPERS movie, especially the scene where the military has co-ed showering! The number of hot actresses in that film are mind numbing. Does it capture the feel of the book? Well, it captures the humor, but no it doesn't capture the book. I actually like the old time radio adaptations of his books better.
But Denise Richards? She was a ten then!
I have been reading several declassified war related documents to clear the path for the 1000 pages the CIA has released on The Pond. The Pond were a private company hired by OSS, CIA and the State Department to find spies- they did. Inaction on their findings led to them getting the list of spies to Joe McCarthy. One of their members saved tens of thousands of Jews from the trains, another Grombach learned of the massacre of 15,000 Polish officers by the Russians 10 days after it happened- and was ordered silent to "protect our allies". The more I have read on the Pond the more I realize we need Intel agencies that come from the private sector.
The other declassified info I've been reading is the wealth of material released by Germany from WW 2. Diddyrick, I would say most people would say what you say about the second war. Sadly I am no longer one of them.
Don't know exactly when I realized our history was propaganda, was it when I discovered the Japanese had tried to surrender to us for months before the atomic bombs? Was it when I discovered the rapes of the women prisoners in the death camps by the "liberating" of the camps? Or the 150,000 German women impregnated by the advancing Russians? Not to mention all those raped? Wondering why we didn't bomb ANY of the train tracks going to camps? Or that laws were passed to keep survivors of Camps from coming here- so the public wouldn't learn what allowed the Russians to do?
A good war? Maybe we should ask the over 200 million Europeans we turned over to Stalin what "good" it did for them. Or the thousands of U.S. troops at wars end that ended up in Russian camps to be used as bargaining chips- never heard from again.
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