Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
The whole of the law and the prophets, right here. Any thoughts? Page 294 of the Cornell University website,
abridged for significance...
Col. L. Thomas;
Adjutant General - US Army.
Fort Sumter SC
April 8, 1861
(emphasis mine)
COLONEL:
... I had the honor to receive by yesterday's mail the letter of the honorable Secretary of War, dated April 4, (instant) and confess that what he there states surprises me very greatly, following as it does and contradicting so positively the assurance Mr. Crawford telegraphed (that) he was authorized to make. I trust that this matter will be at once put in a correct light, as a movement made now, when the South has been erroneously informed that none such will be attempted, would produce most disastrous results throughout our country.
(You think?!)
It is, of course, now too late for me to give any advice IN REFERENCE TO THE PROPOSED SCHEME OF CAPTAIN FOX. I fear that this result cannot fail to be disastrous to all concerned. Even with his boat at our walls the loss of life (as I think I mentioned to Mr. Fox) in unloading her will more than pay for the good to be accomplished by the expedition, which keeps us, if I can maintain possession of this work, out of position, surrounded by strong works, which must be carried to make this fort of the least value to the United States Government.
... I ought to have been informed that this expedition was to come. Colonel Lamon's remark convinced me that the idea, merely hinted at to me by Captain Fox, would not be carried out.
We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say my heart is not in this war which I see to be thus commenced. That God will still avert it. and cause us (the Yankee North) to resort to pacific measures
to maintain our rights, is my ardent prayer.
I am, Colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
Robert Anderson
Major, First Artillery, Commanding
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
What bothers me is why they are not THERE, in the endless dronings about Fort Sumter and how the Confederates unprovokedly attacked the fort, and 'sought to kill everyone' inside, and declared unforgivable war upon the yankee nation! How this act was a premeditated act of absolute and unforgivable Treason...
Because I guarantee you, sir, if these dispatches were the
the basis of those teachings, the story would thence be told very much differently than we all have heard it from official history!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
What bothers me is why they are not THERE, in the endless dronings about Fort Sumter and how the Confederates unprovokedly attacked the fort, and 'sought to kill everyone' inside, and declared unforgivable war upon the yankee nation! How this act was a premeditated act of absolute and unforgivable Treason...
Because I guarantee you, sir, if these dispatches were the
the basis of those teachings, the story would thence be told very much differently than we all have heard it from official history!
Beowulf
The problem with your posts is that they do not represent what I see in serious scholarship about this situation. All of the "dispatches" have been publicly available for generations. They have been talked about and analyzed and published in book after book and article after article. Along with a whole lot of documents and "dispatches" that show just the aggressive and abusive acts you do not wish to see.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
"Even with his boat at our walls the loss of life (as I think I mentioned to Mr. Fox) in unloading her will more than pay for the good to be accomplished by the expedition, which keeps us, if I can maintain possession of this work, out of position, surrounded by strong works, which must be carried to make this fort of the least value to the United States Government."
"Boat at our walls"? So.....do you still maintain that Ft Sumter was an invaluable tariff collection point for the Union?
"Boat at our walls"? So.....do you still maintain that Ft Sumter was an invaluable tariff collection point for the Union?
Cedarstripper
It is my understanding that Lincoln was having ships meet them out in open water to collect his pound of flesh! (Give to Caesar what is Caesar's!).
Or, rather, as he admitted to Unionist Colonel Baldwin, some fifty of sixty millions, annually, or 240 million for his whole bloody term in office. For this, he (and that wretched Gustavus Fox) was the only fly in the ointment in all those dispatches!
For that kind of money, they could build a wonderful dock!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
The problem with your posts is that they do not represent what I see in serious scholarship about this situation. All of the "dispatches" have been publicly available for generations. They have been talked about and analyzed and published in book after book and article after article. Along with a whole lot of documents and "dispatches" that show just the aggressive and abusive acts you do not wish to see.
Tim
I am afraid I don't follow you here. Could you explain what you wrote, please?
If these things are such common knowledge, why aren't they 'common knowledge'? Why am I just hearing of them, lately, since jousting with you guys, and digging up stuff I found while idly perusing the site? The story I got from Sumter in high school made South Carolina look like
Edward Teach under the freaking Skull and Bones Club!
These dispatches are not to make you feel better...
This is the story. The actual story. No McPherson to hold your hand and walk you through it. No Garry Wills, no
William C. Davis, No Ken Burns.... No one making excuses for the United States... (like that HBO film BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE... ahem! Yeah, like that! Don't know how accurate that was, but Sherman and mob are up to their old games, once again, and it is NOT pretty!)...
No, you are on you own, and in their world.
What could be better than that?
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
It is my understanding that Lincoln was having ships meet them out in open water to collect his pound of flesh!
Then I take it you expect it was the foreigner who was paying the duty?
Quote:
Or, rather, as he admitted to Unionist Colonel Baldwin, some fifty of sixty millions, annually, or 240 million for his whole bloody term in office. For this, he (and that wretched Gustavus Fox) was the only fly in the ointment in all those dispatches!
For that kind of money, they could build a wonderful dock!
Beowulf
I'd hoped it was a simple enough question that you would give me a straight answer. Even a simple "yes" or "no" would suffice. I'll try again.
Do you still maintain that Ft Sumter was an invaluable tariff collection point for the Union?
Then I take it you expect it was the foreigner who was paying the duty?
I'd hoped it was a simple enough question that you would give me a straight answer. Even a simple "yes" or "no" would suffice. I'll try again.
Do you still maintain that Ft Sumter was an invaluable tariff collection point for the Union?
Cedarstripper
I think Lincoln thought so. It was certainly a great place to provoke a war, and invade Charleston harbor...
Let the South go? Let the South go? where will we get our revenue?
I think Lincoln would have robbed anyone with a dollar bill!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
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