Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
1). They positively believe that, because of their idolatrous
worship of their sectional historians, they are the last word in anything "Civil War", up to and including that grossly inaccurate title for the war, itself...
2). They are convinced that they are right and that everyone else, if they do not agree with their assessment of things, is completely ignorant of the facts, and they try this system of 'shame' in order to silence those who do not agree with them.
3). They are completely convinced that a few mouthy Southerners were 'everyone', and only Hollywood's 'take' on the Southern (the White Trash Red Neck Stereotype)
man is the only type of Southerner who ever existed, and who is worth mentioning...
4). Lincoln was a god, above all reproach, and he and his left wing Second party could do no wrong.
If you're quite done playing with yourself.
When you post baloney such as the following:
"But immediately following the election, most men perceived that the situation had changed completely and irrevocably. Now a purely regional political party had won complete control over the federal government. Now, the longstanding desire of the Northern capitalists to use the power of the government to enrich themselves by impoverishing the South was no longer just another potential nightmare for the Southerners. Suddenly it had become a harsh reality, and the South would have to deal with it - immediately."
you reveal that you have no regard for historical honesty nor the discussion that has gone on here. Otherwise, you could not, even in your obtuseness, ignore that the Republican party had not "won complete control over the federal government" after the 1860 election. You could not ignore that the central issue during the secession conventions, and the later Declarations of Causes was not what Conner writes (and you dutifully repeat), but instead about the preservation of slavery. You could not ignore that fantasized statements like above do not reflect the speeches of the Secession Commissioners, nor the attitudes of their audiences.
Like the Windex Magpies would say: "That is clear."
But if there is one thing that is more misguided and misfelt than your history, it is your take of what motivates and balances others in these discussions. They are not driven by your brand of malice. I now doubt that you could comment on the weather without finding it necessary to slander the Sun.
For me, its no longer entertaining. Its just boring.
"But immediately following the election, most men perceived that the situation had changed completely and irrevocably. Now a purely regional political party had won complete control over the federal government. Now, the longstanding desire of the Northern capitalists to use the power of the government to enrich themselves by impoverishing the South was no longer just another potential nightmare for the Southerners. Suddenly it had become a harsh reality, and the South would have to deal with it - immediately."
you reveal that you have no regard for historical honesty nor the discussion that has gone on here. Otherwise, you could not, even in your obtuseness, ignore that the Republican party had not "won complete control over the federal government" after the 1860 election. You could not ignore that the central issue during the secession conventions, and the later Declarations of Causes was not what Conner writes (and you dutifully repeat), but instead about the preservation of slavery. You could not ignore that fantasized statements like above do not reflect the speeches of the Secession Commissioners, nor the attitudes of their audiences.
Like the Windex Magpies would say: "That is clear."
But if there is one thing that is more misguided and misfelt than your history, it is your take of what motivates and balances others in these discussions. They are not driven by your brand of malice. I now doubt that you could comment on the weather without finding it necessary to slander the Sun.
For me, its no longer entertaining. Its just boring.
Cedarstripper
The Windex Magpies, unlike Lee, are wrong. The clarity hides a glass they cannot penetrate. And yet they deny to their own detriment. Just because they don't see it doesn't mean it is not there...
My history is anything but misfelt, sir. Having been raised in the South, I understand full well what burdens I am expected to carry in the name of Union, and when I look in the sack, itself, I don't see anything which could possibly weigh that much!
I do, however, see that your people are not carrying their load. This will change. Believe that!
Now, I am 'quite done'.
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
My history is anything but misfelt, sir. Having been raised in the South, I understand full well what burdens I am expected to carry in the name of Union, and when I look in the sack, itself, I don't see anything which could possibly weigh that much!
Feelings! Wuuwowwoh, feelings!
History is not feelings .... it is fact. And fact only. Your vaunted 3rd Line.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The posts of Beowulf, is ample evidence that he has no reliable knowledge of any history, much less of the Civil War. It is doubtful that Beowulf, can research any of his opinions, because he has shown almost no evidence of knowing what actually happened (or why) in Charleston before and during the Ft. Sumter crisis, much less any other historical event of any kind.
History is not feelings .... it is fact. And fact only. Your vaunted 3rd Line.
ole
I would indeed like to see and read the Third Line.
That is my hope, not my expectation.
The first thing we shall need to do is get unbiased people to
do the researching, and be interested in telling ALL of it.
So much for the Third line
Anyone interested in history seems always to be on one side, or other, whether a little bit, or a lot!
It's like a football game. Unless you are in the Goodyear Blimp, you are sitting on a side!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
I would indeed like to see and read the Third Line.
That is my hope, not my expectation.
This has never been your 'hope,' your 'expectation,' nor your 'goal.' This is the sand you have tried to throw in the eyes of those you debate here. It doesn't work, not when you site the works & sources you do.
The first thing we shall need to do is get unbiased people to
do the researching, and be interested in telling ALL of it.
Fine. Follow your own advice and ditch the idiots you seen to have fallen sway to.
So much for the Third line
Exactly.
Anyone interested in history seems always to be on one side, or other, whether a little bit, or a lot!
History? You mean to tell me you have been CONCERNED with history? The guy who talks to his sword, the totally one-sided AMERICAN CEASER, and Conner trite? Not even a "little bit" with this trash being waved about as "history."
It's like a football game. Unless you are in the Goodyear Blimp, you are sitting on a side!
And here is where you fail every time when you write a post. This is not "like a football game." It's not a game at all and every time you try to "score" a point with a snide remark, an insult to every "Northerner," and you just don't get that and it appears you never will. Because you have not really studied history, you've simply picked and chosen your campaign literature or your religious phamphlet from the back of the pew. Your view of the world was already fixed firmly in place when you showed up here at this forum. You've simply searched for whatever tripe supported that view, your version of the "facts." And you will not let any historical facts interfere with the "FAITH" or the "AGENDA" and heaven forbid that actual HISTORY ever enter into the fray!
That would require thought, study, evaluation, reflection, but hey, why let all that interfere with the GAME?
Whether you realize it or not, Beowulf, you fail here, not because you are not witty, charming or even at rare times, funny. You fail because you are as shallow as a mud puddle on a hot, summer day. You have no depth in history, nor width in expanding your knowledge of it.
Your here for the GAME.
Beowulf
More's the pity.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Last edited by unionblue : 04-04-2008 at 07:12 PM.
You are absolutely sure of all this? You are quite certain of it?
I do get a lot of factual stuff from Northern pro-yank sources. They have had an extremely coveted access to it, for all of their existence.
What I object to is the slant that is mixed irreparably in with it, and has to be tolerated.
Example: I hate Hazelnut, but invariably all the Fresh Markets and other hoity-toity little book stalls have this
flavor brewing in the pots. So, if I need a caffeine jag, I must either endure this 'taste', or get my own...
I am sick of Hazelnut. It is not the true taste and flavor of coffee!
My goal is to get hazelnut out of my coffee, which neither adds to it, nor is a true taste of coffee...
The same with my history, the third line...
REAL COFFEE.
Get me some real coffee, and we'll have a cup!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
You are absolutely sure of all this? You are quite certain of it?
Beowulf
Yes.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Forgive me if I haven't, but I do think there is a whole lot more to this 'fight' than you and your beloved historians are willing to admit.
And in the final analysis, of any third line, I don't think you guys would look all that great, coming out the other end!
HBO has already nailed your people with BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE.
I am patiently waiting and hoping to see something else
said about the War, and antebellum periods, as well...
I have a dream!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
I am aware of Wounded Knee. I'm not aware that it is a subject germaine to the US Civil War. Which is, by the way, what we are talking about. Can we, at least, stick close to the subject?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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