Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Prospects aren't to bright with tht set. May as well be 1866.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
In the end, he helped destroy the wealth of the Southern States, including the wealth in their slaves.
He fought until there was no Confederate government. He lost his case through war; he lost his case in the Supreme Court, which upheld the Confiscation Acts of the United States, that punished those in rebellion against the United States.
In fact in his oath to uphold the Confederate Constitution, no provision was made for any Confederate State withdrawing from the Confederacy, nor any "states right" to abolish slavery in their state.
Allowing Jefferson Davis to live in freedom in the United States, surely meant that no state would ever attempt secession in his lifetime. The price was too high, when measured against Confederate logic.
Why don't we try Sherman for war crimes...using the Lieber Code?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
In the end, he helped destroy the wealth of the Southern States, including the wealth in their slaves.
He fought until there was no Confederate government. He lost his case through war; he lost his case in the Supreme Court, which upheld the Confiscation Acts of the United States, that punished those in rebellion against the United States.
In fact in his oath to uphold the Confederate Constitution, no provision was made for any Confederate State withdrawing from the Confederacy, nor any "states right" to abolish slavery in their state.
Allowing Jefferson Davis to live in freedom in the United States, surely meant that no state would ever attempt secession in his lifetime. The price was too high, when measured against Confederate logic.
No, you are right. And it worked. Davis, himself, said it best...
"In asserting to the right of Secession, it has not been my
wish to incite to its exercise; I recognize the fact that the war showed it to be impracticable, but this did not prove it to be wrong."
So, we are left with what, then, if not a peaceful Secession which gets baited into all-out Warfare?
Assassination and overthrow? Why not? Every other country gets lured into that. Thanks to the North, are we really any different?
Think about what you are saying, here. If the Consolidationalist Powers that Be, right now, become as egregious to the populace as they once became to them,
what is the people's option?
I should very much prefer Southern Secession, even with its incumbent Northern malice and provocation, than an
absolute anarchy and overthrow...
This has always been a WE THE PEOPLE versus CERTAIN IN THE GOVERNMENT, and as government is a necessary evil, we must not forget that Jefferson was the first to tell us it was our right and our duty to overthrow such government.
Had Thomas Jefferson been our president, and not his namesake, Jackson would have been allowed to have taken ten thousand men and eradicated Washington City from the map. Just as Stonewall asked to be allowed to do...
The Black Flag, sir. Nothing but the Black Flag. (At least old 'Shaaaaaraaa' got that right!)
Stonewall was an Old testament prophet, who saw defeat when the Confederacy went with a more 'polite' conclusion to the warfare after First Manassas, and expected certain at the North to 'come around'... instead they got many times worse.
Think of the lives that could have been saved, with a forced Northern surrender!
But now, what is left? Might continues to make right, even here.
So, in the swell and flush of your blazingly beautiful 'victory', consider the seeds sown by such victory.
I tremble, sir. For you see, I live here, too...
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
Why don't we try Sherman for war crimes...using the Lieber Code?
With his written confessions (several that I know of; and at least one I can find), he'd plead to the charge and
make a deal for Life without the Possibility of Parole, so
we'd be deprived of the hanging, after all!
Just like Liberty University did in March 2005 with the Trial of Abraham Lincoln. The two day trial was made into a movie; order it! It's pretty cool...
But these people are too slippery to ever hang!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
Prospects aren't to bright with tht set. May as well be 1866.
Nay, friend Battalion! Not the Verdict, sir; that - is not important. Not the verdict, but the chance to get the facts out there and revel in them. History can judge.
I'm game. There is my gauntlet, thrown down upon their
their filthy boots, mired in Southern dust!
Let the games begin!
Beowulf
__________________ If the South accepted Sectional Left Wing Republican Rule, their property would be devalued, by being outlawed unconstitutionally in the territories, and suffer terrorism by Brown's mob ,... their economy would be in shambles... The effect is that the South is not any longer an equal part of the Union.
If the South tried to gain independence from these Left wing Republicans, the North will destroy them all... and curse their memory for all eternity....
Have called the thread to the attention of the supermods as I fear the first posts might be in violation of copyright laws.
As I don't have the Davis apologia, I cannot read what the current publisher has to say about its rights or granting requisite permission. Therefore, comparing his later work with his prewar resolutions might become quite cumbersome.
ole
Its a fair use Ole, posted for purposes of scholarship or review without any intent to profit commercially.
Its a fair use Ole, posted for purposes of scholarship or review without any intent to profit commercially.
It does show how little I know about the law, doesn't it?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Jefferson Davis - THE RISE & FALL OF THE CONFEDERATE GOVERNMENT
How Little Beowulf knows, even about his sainted Jefferson Davis. To Davis there was a clear difference between Revolution and the southern concept of secession.
If the south had won the war, the validity of Secession would have been based on 'might makes right'.
Revisionists carefully avert their eyes from the Constitution, when looking for 'legal' thus 'peaceful' ways the south might have seceded, had they been blessed with more wit than arrogance.
Most southrons (then and surprisingly, now) viewed a slave society as necessary to 'real' freedom and as a bulwark of civilization. To that view, the southern leaders, including Davis, sacrificed everything the south had and stood for, to save the cornerstone of their society; Slavery. (and Revisionist's agree with Davis and the other southern slavers.)
How Little Beowulf knows, even about his sainted Jefferson Davis. To Davis there was a clear difference between Revolution and the southern concept of secession.
If the south had won the war, the validity of Secession would have been based on 'might makes right'.
Revisionists carefully avert their eyes from the Constitution, when looking for 'legal' thus 'peaceful' ways the south might have seceded, had they been blessed with more wit than arrogance.
Most southrons (then and surprisingly, now) viewed a slave society as necessary to 'real' freedom and as a bulwark of civilization. To that view, the southern leaders, including Davis, sacrificed everything the south had and stood for, to save the cornerstone of their society; Slavery. (and Revisionist's agree with Davis and the other southern slavers.)
Kenner mission.
*
Davis considered the South as fighting for the Constitution as originally framed...and the North as a revolution to destroy it.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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