Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Yet we are supposed to pay any more attention to your "opinions and some cherry-picked quotes to back up what they claim." You can't have it both ways dude. And why would you not think this would happen? It's a perfect money making scheme. Or is it difficult for you to envision your saviors of the confederacy doing something so inhumane? And before you get on your high horse about the northern evils... I'm sure they did it as well. Although I'm not sure where they would have kept the slaves since it was illegal in most northern states after a time, but I'm sure an enterprising young man looking to make a quick buck could have figured it out.
DH,
Not familiar with the term "Yellow Journalism" what is that exactly?
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
Yet we are supposed to pay any more attention to your "opinions and some cherry-picked quotes to back up what they claim." You can't have it both ways dude.
Did you bother to read what I posted?
The birth rate of slave women and white women was about the same.
That's from census records...not an opinion or cherry-picked quote.
Quote:
And why would you not think this would happen?
I didn't say it wouldn't happen...just not on the scale that u-blue and jonan steele would have everyone believe.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Not familiar with the term "Yellow Journalism" what is that exactly?
Dred
It is news or a story used to create sensationalism. It has been loosely defined as "not quite libel". A newspaperman named William Hearst (among a couple of others) was probably the most notable person using it effectively. In large part, you can thank him for the Spanish-American War.
__________________ Don
******************* "We Can, We Will" Website:http://www.myspace.com/dhpatrick Member of: American Legion, VFW, SCV Served with: 1st Sqdn, 9th US Cav Regt * 4th Sqdn, 9th US Cav Regt * V US Corps Ancestors with:
2d Miss Inf Regt * 2d Miss Inf State Regt * 26th Miss Inf Regt
32d Miss Inf Regt * 50th Ala Inf Regt * 58th Ala Inf Regt
8th Ga Inf Regt * 40th Ga Inf Regt * 4th Ark Inf Regt
3d Regt Arizona Bde (Tx State)
The truth is there isn't much in the record to support 'slave breeding.'
In here, Battalion's statement, is about where it lies. Slave breeding was there, to not do so was to be rather stupid. But it was rarely something practiced as a business by itself.
Write this down: "Ole agrees with Battalion."
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
In here, Battalion's statement, is about where it lies. Slave breeding was there, to not do so was to be rather stupid. But it was rarely something practiced as a business by itself.
Write this down: "Ole agrees with Battalion."
Sorry, ole, but here I have to disagree with your view.
I think the practice was far more widespread than anyone today is willing to admit and that it was practiced as a business, one aimed for maximum profit.
I'll try and find some more source documents and post them here.
My point is, the was an AMERICAN practice, not just a Southern one, and part of AMERICAN history, the history we don't like to bring up.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Sorry, ole, but here I have to disagree with your view.
I think the practice was far more widespread than anyone today is willing to admit and that it was practiced as a business, one aimed for maximum profit.
I'll try and find some more source documents and post them here.
My point is, the was an AMERICAN practice, not just a Southern one, and part of AMERICAN history, the history we don't like to bring up.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
Unionblue
I take solis in your use of 'American' rather than 'Southern'. ..but have to say I don't wish you luck in your endeavor. I've had enough surprises for the week.
__________________ Don
******************* "We Can, We Will" Website:http://www.myspace.com/dhpatrick Member of: American Legion, VFW, SCV Served with: 1st Sqdn, 9th US Cav Regt * 4th Sqdn, 9th US Cav Regt * V US Corps Ancestors with:
2d Miss Inf Regt * 2d Miss Inf State Regt * 26th Miss Inf Regt
32d Miss Inf Regt * 50th Ala Inf Regt * 58th Ala Inf Regt
8th Ga Inf Regt * 40th Ga Inf Regt * 4th Ark Inf Regt
3d Regt Arizona Bde (Tx State)
I take solis in your use of 'American' rather than 'Southern'. ..but have to say I don't wish you luck in your endeavor. I've had enough surprises for the week.
DHPatrick,
The Civil War is American history, not just Southern or Northern, but American.
Slavery in this country must devolve on American shoulders, not just Southern ones. Slavery could not have existed in this country nor flourished in the South without the ready and willing assistance of the North in the form of transporting and selling of slaves.
Sometimes, we have to look at the ugly 'surprises' in our history in order to learn how not to repeat them in our nation's future.
Denying or minimizing such unfortunate facts about our history denies us and our childrens chance to learn from our ancestors mistakes.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I think Unionblue has just summed up how we asre supposed to look at history. That means loooking at it and not shying away from the things that don't fit our preconceptions.
Three people in particular on this site have made me relook what I knew about an aspect of the CW era. Between Larry, Trice and Unionblue I've changed my views on a couple subjects. And Cash made me rethink what I knew about Battalions hero Jeff Davis. I still think he's a cast iron son of a lawyer and professional politician... Davis not Battalion Battalion is just the king of the cherry pick and out of context quote nothing more.
When it comes to slave breeding my opinion is stated earlier in this thread, including why I have no doubt some census records were cooked. If there were no slave breeding and Battalion and his ilk suggest there was certainly a lot of interacial marriage in the South... oops that wasn't even legal in some states until the 1980's... yes I said 1980's. There are quite a few letters from US soldiers expressing outrage at seeing slaves as white as they. Howell Cobb was one, whether he admitted it or not he had far more children than he claimed. These instance are out there and they are plentiful; reading period letters and diaries prove it to me.
As some of our esteemed opponents upon the other side of the aisle have fondly referred to slaves as horses and cattle... a new pony or calf is profit to a farmer or rancher. The same was true of slaves. A prime field hand that can sell for a thousand dollars at a fairly young age is profit. And when the only expenditure upon said slave has been a roof over his head, food and clothing none of which were very expensive and certainly did not equal a thousand across say 16 years. Unionblue has provided several instances, not cherry picked and taken out of context, real instances where there can be little doubt slave owners were looking at slaves as breeding stock.
If a slave woman was quite fetching or caught an owners fancy she didn't have the right to say no. If she turned up pregnant, so much the better. If it happened several times all the better... as Battalion likes to chime "money... the cause" with a side of the pleasure that comes from human nature. "White slavery" today is sexual slavery; it isn't a new concept. Yes, it's despicable. It's merely one more thing that makes slavery so.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
The politically correct term would probably be 'management of assets'. The war of 1861-65 must have put a considerable stop to any previous 'management' practices. Thank God for that. There couldn't have been much of a financial turnaround for a child. Yes, the child would grow, but it still required a good 10-15 years to produce a good field hand, regardless of the inspiration for the birth. Humans are by no means humane. Never have been.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Sorry, ole, but here I have to disagree with your view.
I think the practice was far more widespread than anyone today is willing to admit and that it was practiced as a business, one aimed for maximum profit...
Sincerely,
Unionblue
Such a practice would cause a great deal of problems among the slaves. Diseases, demoralization, disharmony...= deaths and runaways...
Even from a cold-hearted business approach this would not be in the best interest of the slaveowner.
Plus there is the social factor. If a slaveowner is suspected of running a 'slave breeding camp'...how will he be treated by society? If he has aims at a political career...where will that go?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Battalion is just the king of the cherry pick and out of context quote nothing more.
Linear Mode
