Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I do not dispute your argument has merit. I just don't buy an advertisement as a source document whether it was published in the 1860's or today.
DHPatrick, my argument has not only merit, but historical fact to back it up. While the product may not be as good as advertised, the product was still for sale and it was advertised.
Take a moment and look at the ads in your newspaper, how many of them do you believe constitute being source documents? Do they reflect your interests?
Like the idea of cars being offered for sale in my local paper? Sorry, DH, my view is that they are actually offering cars for sale and that they actually have them there on the lot they advertise.
One hundred years from now, the photos of those cars, the advertised prices, etc., will be source documents on this period relating to our money system, our transportation, sales techniques, etc.
Now, do I believe that a little blue capsule with enlagre my private package or that a cream advertised will grow hair in my bald spot? I have some personal problems/issues if the product will produce as advertised, but I have no doubt that someone is trying to sell it to me and that it is an actual product. The question is, will I buy it or not?
But people a hundred years from now will read in those old newspaper advertisements that such products were for sale and marvel at just how stupid we were to buy them.
Just like we marvel now that human beings of all ages of both sexes were for sale for money.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
While I emphatically don't believe my southern ancestors fought to support slavery nor my Union ancestors fought to suppress it, I can see some merit in Union Blue's notion that their actions may have unwittingly supported that general effort. What I do believe is that slavery existed. Too many slave markets such as Fayetteville and Memphis survived to suspect otherwise. As for newspapers being a source document, one really wouldn't expect to find a notarized affidavit from a slave that he or she was sold or offered for sale. Preponderance of evidence in the number of newspaper adds suggests some activity was about. Remember that in 1861-65, the yankees, aside from the ones in the US Army, hadn't moved south, so there was still some truth in advertising. Besides, an ad in the paper for goods that didn't exist as noted, could have and probably did, get more than one man shot. I, for one, vote with Union Blue.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Besides, an ad in the paper for goods that didn't exist as noted, could have and probably did, get more than one man shot. I, for one, vote with Union Blue.
One of us has to go, Larry. Was thinking the same thing. Put an ad in the Charleston Mercury. This guy shows up and wants to see the merchandise. You say, I was just kidding. Not a soul at Aetna would want on their rolls.
There was this ad. It means nothing by itself: some guy had a slave to sell and took out an ad in the biggest paper in several states. It's a slice of a snapshot of a one-day-in-a-thousand event. But it was there! That is a primary source: the ad was in that paper on that date. And that's about all it means. Can't very well say it wasn't; the newspaper archives show that it was. That is a primary source. It may not say or support what I think, but there is no way to say that it wasn't there. That is the definition of a primary source.
I'll agree that it might take considerably more than one to support a point, but you really can't say that the ad is not a primary source. It was there and published. How much closer to primary can you get?
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
One of these days I'm going to run across a parentless, adolescent weasel. When he says to me, how to I become a grownup weasel?, I'm going to send him off to study at your throne. I will say to him, "My son, I'm going to place you under the care of the chief weasel."
Take care of the little bugger. He's depending on you.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Not yet, you don't. I have to check the rule books first. How do I search that? Larry v. Union. Cockerham v. blue? This might take a while. Film at 11:00.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
What would be a valid study would encompass looking at several Southern newspapers where slave auctions took place. Then you study and document all the adverisments for selling slaves over several years. Next if you separated those ads into ones that mentioned breeding and those that did not you could better quantify the data on slave owners who engaged in breeding and those that either did not or failed to mention it. I wonder if anyone has done this?
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
You have just volunteered, Freddy. Let's hear it for Freddy! I have just marked my calendar to check on your progress during 2015.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
What would be a valid study would encompass looking at several Southern newspapers where slave auctions took place. Then you study and document all the adverisments for selling slaves over several years. Next if you separated those ads into ones that mentioned breeding and those that did not you could better quantify the data on slave owners who engaged in breeding and those that either did not or failed to mention it. I wonder if anyone has done this?
The problem is that I do not think the ads would necessarily mention breeding slaves. You could pick the slave breeders if they were selling children younger than 10 without their mothers, but since this was illegal in some places and no doubt frowned upon in others, I would guess much of the traffic in children was not advertized.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
but since this was illegal in some places and no doubt frowned upon in others, I would guess much of the traffic in children was not advertized.
If there was slave-breeding (and I believe there had to have been at least a little), it would doubtlessly be conducted in some secrecy.
The ad previously mentioned is innocent enough to be excluded. The man has a girl with two baby girls. She's superfluous on his plantation, so she's for sale. (I do notice, however that there's no mention of a father.) At least he has the good grace to offer them as a package.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
You all (ole, timewalker, at least) mention the idea that slave-breeding had to be kept secret.
Why?
If the owning and selling of black slaves was considered nothing more than the owning and selling of property, not PEOPLE, then why would the breeding of slaves for that market be considered so bad, so horrible, that it had to be done in secret?
Your reasons?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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