Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Just as soon as you tell me everything you know about Chapter X of the RISE AND FALL...
(This should not take long!).
At least let me know you have actually seen it!
Beowulf
Beowulf,
This is the way it works.
You made the claim via your post. You have been challenged to provide proof of your claim, not just the title of a work or book.
I will not do your research for you, I will not answer for you, nor will I discuss my reading list with you. I have not stated anything about Davis stating he wanted to have compensated emancipation.
You have.
Now, you either know the answer or you don't.
It's that simple.
If you know where Davis said this in the work referenced, provide it.
If you don't, admit it.
Your next post in reply to this one will tell the story for all to see.
I await your reply.
(And I know this won't take long.)
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Last edited by unionblue : 04-06-2008 at 11:20 PM.
As already pointed out, the Only ships of the Union Resupply Fleet, that arrived at Charleston Harbor during the battle, itself, was the Baltic, the Harriett Lane and Pawnee.
Harriet Lane arrived first on station a little before midnight April 11 and was joined by the Baltic around 3 A.M. April 12, with Pawnee arriving even later, around 7 A.M.. War had already started 4:30 A. M. April 12, 1861.
The fleet that excited S. Carolinians thought they saw on the morning of the 12th was the gathering of commercial shipping that had halted at the Mouth of the Harbor, because of the heavy canon fire, of the battle against Ft. Sumter.
Balderdash. I doubt there has ever been a war in all of recorded history where the losing side had so much favorable prose written about it as the Southern side in the American Civil War.
What you have in the Winter of 1860-61 is a bunch of grasping people who had a vision of the future that included a Confederacy that would be conquering their neighbors in the Gulf and Central America, bringing the benefits of slavery with them, or re-opening the African slave trade. Jeff Davis appears to have been one of these; others abound. They took their vision of the future into war, and the wheels came off their wagon.
There were some admirable people dragged along with those losers, but that is the way it was.
Tim
This is a balderdash lie.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
No such promise was made by the Federal government.
At the time, the US Navy only had three "warships" in active commission on the East Coast of the United States. The rest were on duty elsewhere or laid up in navy yards (Buchanan had left the Navy a shambles). One of those three was diverted to Ft. Pickens (the Powhattan). The rest of the ships in the expedition were a Coast Guard vessel and some hired civilian craft, including tugboats. The Baltic was hired to carry 200 troops and supplies. One of the tugboats was so powerfully armed she was seized by a mob in North Carolina when she put in to port in a storm.
Opposed to this joke of a squadron, the Confederacy had over 10,000 troops in and around Charleston, manning batteries and forts that had been preparing for war for four months. Their interlocking fire was specifically designed to cover Ft. Sumter and the approaches to it, commanded by an efficient and experienced artillery officer and engineer. Beauregard was part of the group that planned the siege batteries at Vera Cruz, for example, along with Lee and McClellan.
When you sit back and review this objectively, there is no realistic threat to Charleston in this expedition. The best the ships could have done would be to land supplies and some troops in Sumter, probably with heavy damage and casualties. Then they would have to sail out again, and the fort would still be reduced by bombardment. Any fear that this expedition would "plunder" South Carolina is poppycock: perhaps excusable in a frenzied populace whipped to a war fever by the propaganda of men like Rhett, but not believable today.
Sigh. Fox's actions are well-known, and have been since 1861. They are not "acts of war" and do not even violate the supposed promise given in March to Southern representatives about resupplying Ft. Sumter. There was no "conspiracy" -- or at least, if you apply the same rules to documented actions by Southerners going back to 1858 and before, any Northern "conspiracy" would have to be regarded as a gnat alongside the galloping and well-documented elephant of a Southern "conspiracy".
Tim
This is a balderdash lie.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Originally Posted by trice No such promise was made by the Federal government.
At the time, the US Navy only had three "warships" in active commission on the East Coast of the United States. The rest were on duty elsewhere or laid up in navy yards (Buchanan had left the Navy a shambles). One of those three was diverted to Ft. Pickens (the Powhattan). The rest of the ships in the expedition were a Coast Guard vessel and some hired civilian craft, including tugboats. The Baltic was hired to carry 200 troops and supplies. One of the tugboats was so powerfully armed she was seized by a mob in North Carolina when she put in to port in a storm.
Opposed to this joke of a squadron, the Confederacy had over 10,000 troops in and around Charleston, manning batteries and forts that had been preparing for war for four months. Their interlocking fire was specifically designed to cover Ft. Sumter and the approaches to it, commanded by an efficient and experienced artillery officer and engineer. Beauregard was part of the group that planned the siege batteries at Vera Cruz, for example, along with Lee and McClellan.
When you sit back and review this objectively, there is no realistic threat to Charleston in this expedition. The best the ships could have done would be to land supplies and some troops in Sumter, probably with heavy damage and casualties. Then they would have to sail out again, and the fort would still be reduced by bombardment. Any fear that this expedition would "plunder" South Carolina is poppycock: perhaps excusable in a frenzied populace whipped to a war fever by the propaganda of men like Rhett, but not believable today.
Sigh. Fox's actions are well-known, and have been since 1861. They are not "acts of war" and do not even violate the supposed promise given in March to Southern representatives about resupplying Ft. Sumter. There was no "conspiracy" -- or at least, if you apply the same rules to documented actions by Southerners going back to 1858 and before, any Northern "conspiracy" would have to be regarded as a gnat alongside the galloping and well-documented elephant of a Southern "conspiracy".
Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
This is a balderdash lie.
No, just the truth. If it were a lie, you could simply post facts to support your position. But you can't, and so, as usual, you post nonsense like this to make believe you have something to say. Nice to see you stay true to form.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Was going to do some editing, but I guess it's too late.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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