Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Just more of the same: empty rhetoric designed to avoid confronting what the South actually did. As noted, even the Confederacy's own Secretary of State told them it was a fatal mistake when they voted to attack Ft. Sumter. They decided to do it anyway, and four years of war proved that the Secretary of State was right. But here we are in 2008 and you can't even acknowledge the facts from almost 150 years back.
Tim
If you consider that war was inevitable...then Davis made the right decision-
White population (where the majority of the military force would come from)
Original seven states-2,619,114
Four additional states after Fort Sumter-2,828,106 (108% increase)
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
If you consider that war was inevitable...then Davis made the right decision-
White population (where the majority of the military force would come from)
Original seven states-2,619,114
Four additional states after Fort Sumter-2,828,106 (108% increase)
War was only inevitable because the secessionists wanted one.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
"You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Ft Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result."
--Lincoln to Capt. G.V. Fox (leader of the Fort Sumter relief expedition), 1 May 1861
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Lincon was encouranging Fox, by reminding him that their expectations were met. Lincoln (and Fox) knew that either Fox's attempt to resupply Ft. Sumter would succeed and the choice of war would remain in Davis' hands Or that southern gunfire would prevent the attempt, initiating War.
Either way, the issue of war remained where it always existed; in the hands of the dissatified leaders of a sectionist minority.
From the Unionist view, Lincoln had established a win/win position concerning war. Davis should have listened to his Sec'y of State.
Lincon was encouranging Fox, by reminding him that their expectations were met. Lincoln (and Fox) knew that either Fox's attempt to resupply Ft. Sumter would succeed and the choice of war would remain in Davis' hands Or that southern gunfire would prevent the attempt, initiating War.
Either way, the issue of war remained where it always existed; in the hands of the dissatified leaders of a sectionist minority.
From the Unionist view, Lincoln had established a win/win position concerning war. Davis should have listened to his Sec'y of State.
...and in other words Lincoln provoked the war.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
It is hard Not to provoke a Bully looking for a fight.
But Lincoln was reminding Fox that if the simple fact of resupplying a Union fort owned and operated by the United States Gov't, was deemed a cause for war then there was nothing that they, as agents of the Government of the United States Gov't, doing their Legal and Constitutional duties, could do to prevent it. It only remained to accept the decision of the leaders of the south, that an unarmed supply ship was a cause for war.
It is hard Not to provoke a Bully looking for a fight.
But Lincoln was reminding Fox that if the simple fact of resupplying a Union fort owned and operated by the United States Gov't, was deemed a cause for war then there was nothing that they, as agents of the Government of the United States Gov't, doing their Legal and Constitutional duties, could do to prevent it. It only remained to accept the decision of the leaders of the south, that an unarmed supply ship was a cause for war.
I am researching the ownership of the fort, now...
I think there may be a legal question here, in re timeliness of the US Government.
And you are right; Lincoln was a bully, if there has ever been a textbook definition of one!
One thing he would have never been, had he lived... was everyone's president. He had sectionally so sold out to his collectivist mob that Booth had to declare that it was he who shot Lincoln, and not the line formed at the rear!
It is hard Not to provoke a Bully looking for a fight.
Bullies usually do the provoking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpnD
But Lincoln was reminding Fox that if the simple fact of resupplying a Union fort owned and operated by the United States Gov't, was deemed a cause for war then there was nothing that they, as agents of the Government of the United States Gov't, doing their Legal and Constitutional duties, could do to prevent it. It only remained to accept the decision of the leaders of the south, that an unarmed supply ship was a cause for war.
What unarmed supply ship?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
So your point, then, is that the Confederates (with over 10,000 soldiers and many heavy guns) were afraid that a tiny number of ships (some of which are tugboats) with 200 soldiers aboard (mainly raw recruits at that, and from an Artillery regiment) were going to sail into the harbor through their fire, land, kick their butts, and plunder South Carolina? I think that is probably the silliest theory I've heard in a long time.
Tim
You guys have to count 'all four' expeditions which were launched by Lincoln to provoke a war, at that time, and to culminate around the 11th, instant.
In all, the so-called "Relief Squadron" consisted of eight warships, carrying 26 guns, and one thousand, four hundred men - hardly 'provisions' only". DAVIS Rise and Fall, Volume I Page 284, from AMERICAS CAESAR P371
from HOSTILITIES COMMENCE IN CHARLESTON HARBOR.
And then, Anderson's own ill-spoken (and never by sectional historians!) comments about how he controlled Charleston harbor from his little vantage point...
28 December 1860 -
From Major Robert Anderson;
to Adjutant General Cooper:
"(The Governor) knows not how entirely the city of Charleston is in my power. I can cut his communication off from the sea (blockades), and thereby prevent the reception of supplies, and close the harbor, even at night, by destroying the lighthouses."
Official Records: Armies Series I Volume I Page 113
It was AFTER THIS was known that South Carolina was still to offer (and then, even actually bring them in a boat!) fresh meat and vegetables, which Anderson said he had to refuse, because of protocol and general orders...
The real story is ever so much better than the yankee 'sanitized for your protection' abridged editions.
You guys have to count 'all four' expeditions which were launched by Lincoln to provoke a war
What else could he have done?
Not only might abandoning the fort would have left it open to seizure by South Carolina or the Confederacy but, more importantly, have sent out the impression that Lincoln was going to be as unconcerned about secession as his predecessor was. Regardless of one's own view on whether saving the Union was a Good Thing or not, we need to consider the perspectives of those who were in a position to act on their beliefs.
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
