Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
When a state joined the Confederacy, it no longer had a "states right" to end slavery in its own boundaries. It had that right under the U.S. Constitution.
When a state joined the Confederacy, it no longer had a "states right" to end slavery in its own boundaries. It had that right under the U.S. Constitution.
I don't think the states had any rights under the myopic Yankee view of the Constitution! I think certain bought and paid for corruptly Consolidationlist 'Civil-War' invaders who had Big Business in their wallets and the who masqueraded as a 'political party' had whatever rights they could 'buy, beg, borrow, or steal'! I've never seen the time when the YANKEE didn't know what was best for everyone!
Your beloved Underground Railroad was as unconstitutional and as criminal an element LEGALLY as ever was. But so long as a preponderance of the yanks can be convinced to be 'on board' with it, and the rest gulagged into silence, then
that's the law of the land, and what Covenant with Hell?
I don't think the states had any rights under the myopic Yankee view of the Constitution! I think certain bought and paid for corruptly Consolidationlist 'Civil-War' invaders who had Big Business in their wallets and the who masqueraded as a 'political party' had whatever rights they could 'buy, beg, borrow, or steal'! I've never seen the time when the YANKEE didn't know what was best for everyone!
Who are you angry with, Beowulf? What YANKEE'S have told you recently what was best for you, other than disagreeing with your version of Civil War history?
Your beloved Underground Railroad was as unconstitutional and as criminal an element LEGALLY as ever was. But so long as a preponderance of the yanks can be convinced to be 'on board' with it, and the rest gulagged into silence, then
that's the law of the land, and what Covenant with Hell?
OUR 'beloved Underground Railroad?' I'm pretty sure if you asked, you would not find one board member a 'conductor' on the long-ago refugee route. I am also pretty sure that none of the present membership have broken any laws, constitutional or otherwise, but yet you continue to speak as if the North and the South were still at war, instead of fellow members contesting your version of events of that time.
Beowulf
Curious.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
When a state joined the Confederacy, it no longer had a "states right" to end slavery in its own boundaries. It had that right under the U.S. Constitution.
The greatest violation of "states' rights" was the 1850 Fugitive Slave Law -- which used Federal force against Northern states, set aside their legal systems, and authorized slave catchers to roam the North with Federal marshals required to back them up. It also set aside the rights of the individual, dispensed with due process and the right to trial, etc. Even Southern Fire-Eaters like their leader Rhett thought this law unconstitutional -- but since it was to their benefit, they were perfectly willing to trample on the concept of "states' rights".
They were two-faced on the issue. They shouted the slogan when it suited them, and violated the rights of others when they could get away with it.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
It is astounding and sad that in 2008 any American would actually speak out against the Underground Railroad!!! Especially, by someone who claims to be in favor of freedom!!!
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
It is astounding and sad that in 2008 any American would actually speak out against the Underground Railroad!!! Especially, by someone who claims to be in favor of freedom!!!
Freedom and equality for whites only, Freddy, and preferably Celts.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The greatest violation of "states' rights" was the 1850 Fugitive Slave Law -- which used Federal force against Northern states, set aside their legal systems, and authorized slave catchers to roam the North with Federal marshals required to back them up. It also set aside the rights of the individual, dispensed with due process and the right to trial, etc. Even Southern Fire-Eaters like their leader Rhett thought this law unconstitutional -- but since it was to their benefit, they were perfectly willing to trample on the concept of "states' rights".
They were two-faced on the issue. They shouted the slogan when it suited them, and violated the rights of others when they could get away with it.
Tim
I have received a 'premonition' from the Powers that Be that I have certain views which are not palatable to everyone herein. I shall have to tip-toe backwards out of this minefield, as 'certain' herein have chosen to lodge complaints outside of the normal back and forth banter.
For the record, I find that sort of behind-the-scenes 'guerilla warfare' to be absolutely craven, and unacceptable. You either want to talk about this stuff, or you don't.
I find it fascinating that the pro-Southern element is held to a different and to a double standard when expressing his views.
I shall make one statement in defense of my work here, and it could be my last, depending upon what OTHERS choose to do at the next 'Tribal Council'... I suppose it is time for me to begin speaking as tersely and as rigidly as Battalion does, and for the same reason.
The Constitution was being violated by the Underground Railroad. The rights of property owners in slaves were being illegally violated, according to the law. My 2008 'views' do not matter, at all. The North's newfound morality was criminal according to the law of the land. It was a form of anarchy.
This was a very different world.
I think we moderns would all last about 20 minutes in such a place, and under such people.
If you hear from me again, it is because I am still here.
You are free to discuss whatever you want, as long as you are not flaming, racist, or rude.
also, we encourage poeple to tell us when there is a problem with another member, so that we can help get that member in check. as he may not realize he was offensive.
Apparently, you missed that concept of not airing dirty laundry in public.
If you don't like the way we handle things here, you are free to go.
I have received a 'premonition' from the Powers that Be that I have certain views which are not palatable to everyone herein.
However unpalatable your views, Bewulf, being unsavory is not often grounds for complaint. What is objectionable to me is that you disrupt every thread that you've looked in on. Unpalatable views on topic are cheerfully and enthusiastically discussed.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I have received a 'premonition' from the Powers that Be that I have certain views which are not palatable to everyone herein. I shall have to tip-toe backwards out of this minefield, as 'certain' herein have chosen to lodge complaints outside of the normal back and forth banter.
For the record, I find that sort of behind-the-scenes 'guerilla warfare' to be absolutely craven, and unacceptable. You either want to talk about this stuff, or you don't.
The nicest word I could think of for this silliness you are posting is "blarney" -- but that is too nice for what you are doing and implies a particular sort of Celtic charm you have never exhibited here, so I can't use it. Balderdash is about as nice as I can get. You simply are unwilling to face up to your own bad behavior as the reason for the resistance you encounter. IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I find it fascinating that the pro-Southern element is held to a different and to a double standard when expressing his views.
Nope. I can't say I have ever seen that here. It is, however, a frequent complaint posted by those I would describe as nothing-but-Southern-is-right extremists, who practice the technique of professing outrage with much the same fervor that propagandists for Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin and Mao did. The problem seems to be that you object to being held to any objective standard in what you post, no matter what it is, and fill the ether with long passages of rhetoric with little factual content as a means of making it seem you have a point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I shall make one statement in defense of my work here, and it could be my last, depending upon what OTHERS choose to do at the next 'Tribal Council'... I suppose it is time for me to begin speaking as tersely and as rigidly as Battalion does, and for the same reason.
Battalion speaks "tersely" and "rigidly" because he has often been caught in concealing the truth and deceiving others. He is afraid to be revealed that way again, and so he has become cautious and vague when asked for clarity in what he means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
The Constitution was being violated by the Underground Railroad. The rights of property owners in slaves were being illegally violated, according to the law. My 2008 'views' do not matter, at all. The North's newfound morality was criminal according to the law of the land. It was a form of anarchy.
Oh, poppycock. How "newfound" could it be? The last Northern state to vote to end slavery was NJ, and that was more than 50 years before the Civil War. One of the biggest men in the running of the Underground Railroad was a Quaker citizen of Wilmington, Delaware -- a slave state. Get off your hobby-horse and admit more of real-life into your fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
This was a very different world.
I think we moderns would all last about 20 minutes in such a place, and under such people.
Silly. All "worlds" are different, and people have always been people. They'd have as much difficulty with our times as we'd have with their time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
If you hear from me again, it is because I am still here.
The logical content of this sentence appears to be a void. But then if you look at your entire post -- like so many other posts you have made -- and boil it down to an essence, we find the content comes to nothing.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
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