Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I have a question. I realize this will open a huge can of worms, but it is something which has been bothering me.
Many claim that the war was not about slavery, but about "states rights" and that states rights had nothing to do with slavery. The South was fighting to free itself from the oppression of the North - fighting for liberty, freedom, etc. which had been denied by the Federal Government.
Let us assume that slavery was indeed not the issue. What were the rights that were being denied/violated? What actions or threatened actions of the Federal government were threatening the liberty and/or property of the people in the South?
I have seen it argued that it was the right of secession itself which was being denied, but it is illogical to secede simply because you do not have the right to secede.
In answering this question, acts taken by the Federal goverment after the acts of secession are irrelevant. No diatribes about invasion and the abridgment of civil liberties by Lincoln. They did not secede because they were invaded, they were invaded following their secession. Lincoln could not have abridged civil liberties in the South because he was not even in office yet when most fo the states voted to secede.
So if not slavery, what was it?
States rights was about any right not delgated away, it mattered if waterways were not included in the delagted right to regulate commerce and was left ouit, so it went to court as to if the undelgated authority to regulate wanterwys was part of commerce.
They could do this because they were sovriegins who had delegated aurthority away on this or that, and were able to interpose if any undelagted right of pwer was taken.
the lower south secedded because they had the right to do so as sovriegns, because of the election of party that they considered would not be bound by the constition and pre emptied any action, (chiefly over slavery, whcih ment its non extension which was apolitcal measure to prevent southern ststes haveing represtantive votes, and to prevent the owner talking his property to out compete free whites in thge new states by virtue of economy of scale and speclization)the upper south seceded when that Republican party then acted contary to the Constition, and so they also secceded over coercion.
No extension of slavery was a politcal means of makeing sure the NE and Mid west could reamin the manjoirity rather than the comprimise of 1820 and later that brought in equal free and slave states, so as to maintain balance in government, is one politcal right that the republiocans sought to remove.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
I wanted to know what exactly was a State Right because when I was in school I was taught that the Constitution gave us individual rights starting with the Bill of Rights then corresponding amendments.
I got out the Constitution and fumbled through it and found no Bill of Rights for States but I did not give up. I turned each page over and searched it front and back had no luck so I went on and looked for small print and even for any asterisks, no luck. I just could not find any Bill of Rights or amendments about State Rights.
I knew in the Constitutions wording it implies that States have powers and prerogatives but nothing about rights.
So before, I return my Constitution back and get my money back for having no Bill of Rights for States. I want to have my story right when I ask the store back for my money.
I have a question: Can anyone list me the rights in the Constitution that states have? I not talking about powers or prerogatives but cold hard rights!!
I would appreciate anyone's help!
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Dear Hanny,
In reference to post 11 above:
The worry of the slaveowners was not Lincoln restricting them from the territories, as much as Lincoln using patronage to create a southern Republican party.
This southern Republican party would attract voters dissatisfied with the domination in many states by an elite of wealthy slaveowners. It would provide a democratic(small d) alternative to slave-based politics, and slave-based economies.
Delaware, Maryland, Missouri, and Kentucky were all nominally slave states, but slavery was declining in all these states, and in the eyes of slaveowners, and the practice of slavery was becoming more difficult.
In Maryland, slaves were escaping into free territory. Missouri faced free territory on two sides, north and east, and with Kansas becomine a free state, the west.
Inside the border states, populations were less willing to defend and protect smaller and smaller numbers of slaveowners. But states like Virginia, Tennessee and even South Carolina had large numbers of citizens angry with the special privileges and powers the slaveowners had given themselves. A southern Republican party would have challenged all that.
Slaveowners had stifled debate about slavery everywhere they could. The use of violence against anyone suspected of heresy on the institution was swift. I don't mean abolitionists or underground railroad people, but anyone.
Some people have commented on the Republicans being a sectional party. Well, when slaveowners prevented any Republican political activity, they shouldn't complain about a sectional party.
Secession was an elite trying to hold on to its special position, and using the crudest type of racism to rope in as many non elites as they could. They never showed any particular respect or regard for the Constitution or any other law antebellum, and its hard to respect their new found concern for Constitutional issues.
Sense I could not find any Bill of Rights in the Constitution for States. I went on and dug briefly into the history of States Rights and what did I find!
States rights started with "good intention" when Jefferson and Madison were trying to nullify the Alien Sedition Act of 1798. They wanted to use the concept of States Rights to nullify the Alien Sedition Act in the KY. & VA. Resolution.
A WARNING: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
Yes, Jefferson and Madison laid the groundwork that would be the a "Battle Cry" that starts the Civil War..
Lets move ahead Calhoune brings up States Rights again to justify Slavery and Secession. The southern states latch on, which leads to Civil War.
You would think States Rights would die with the south losing the Civil War but it raise it ugly head in a court ruling Plessy vs Ferguson the "separate but equal" ruling, which led to the "Jim Crow" south and segregation.
Move into the 20th century and the forces of good fight back with "civil rights" and the evil south fights back with States Rights. In the end States Rights is not slay-en but is caged freeing Black America from segregation and oppression.
SEE! What the "good intentions" of Jefferson and Madison lead to for our nation. It lead to Civil War and repression of Black America.
SEE! How "good intentions" was Hi-Jack by evil.
States Rights is a political slogan for states and their citizens to hide behind to justify their ethocentic behaviors.
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Darn it, I wasn't quick enough, Timewalker, Matthew and 5fish, took all my best lines. Oh well, it is the price for being old and slow.
I will only add, that without slavery, the south would have been as one with the north, concerning tariffs and internal improvements.
States rights started with "good intention" when Jefferson and Madison were trying to nullify the Alien Sedition Act of 1798. They wanted to use the concept of States Rights to nullify the Alien Sedition Act in the KY. & VA. Resolution.
A WARNING: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
Yes, Jefferson and Madison laid the groundwork that would be the a "Battle Cry" that starts the Civil War..
And if you look deeper into Madison's reaction to His Satanic Majesty, John C. Calhoun's handiwork, you'll see that Madison showed that Calhoun misused the VA & KY Resolutions.
I have a question: Can anyone list me the rights in the Constitution that states have? I not talking about powers or prerogatives but cold hard rights!!
Equal representation in the Senate without respect to underlying population.
Equal representation in the Senate without respect to underlying population.
I look back to the 1850's and saw the all states had their allotment of two sitting senators. So, what was this fuss over States Rights that led up to the civil war?
Maybe the secessionist could not count up to two if they could. They would have seem their States Right under the Constitution was being upheld by the federal government so why go to war.
Only if someone knew the secessionist could not count up to two.
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
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