Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I've noticed that over on another Civil War forum they have dropped their "Causes of the War" section due to the name-calling and back-biting it continually causes.
They now talk about famous generals and battles of the war, reenacting and other nonpolitical areas.
How about we do the same here at this forum?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
The argument is the lifeblood of a board. It's what makes it worthwhile to visit. Somewhere in there is a balance, and it's a fine line to tread.
No subject is given to avoiding incivility or crazies. If one is interested or active, "Was Hood on Laudanum" can raise hackles.
There are those, and I count myself among them, who become uncomfortable with clashes. Some will thrive on that atmosphere; some will leave.
There is a board that limits subject matter to a theater. It's a rare week when there are more than five posts. And, even then, when an interesting topic is broached, there is disagreement and usually some interesting discussion.
Sometimes, and I expect it to be inevitable, some "spirited" discussion ensues. If I had not been stretched by disagreement and debate, I would still believe as I did a few years ago. And I would not have read the books I have. Nor delved into the ORs. Nor have heard that there is a serious body of thought out there that I'd never have discovered were it not for this board.
This board is vital and thriving. Sometimes it gets out of hand, but during just this last year we've seen an appreciable influx of new, active, vitally interested life.
Without the political, the student doesn't get the picture. Although you correctly point out that politics is trouble, if it isn't included, it isn't study. So I submit that we need to accept and deal with the trouble and the occasional wingnut. Without the active discussion, there would be little value in participation.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I've noticed that over on another Civil War forum they have dropped their "Causes of the War" section due to the name-calling and back-biting it continually causes.
They now talk about famous generals and battles of the war, reenacting and other nonpolitical areas.
How about we do the same here at this forum?
Unionblue
Ole! We are in total agreement!
UnionBlue, that's what reenactments are for, brother! Camping out and swapping tobacco with the Yanks and
sitting by the fire and crossing picket lines and asking Billy if he can hook you up with his incredibly-fine sister, over in civvie camp, for the Ball that evening!
And then they make you line up and fight the next day, not that you really want to... you partied with these guys last night!
The only difference is this: Like Fish said, you wear your Religion ON YOUR SLEEVE! And when you got your colors on, you don't have to say anything! People know what you would say about this, or that, so sit down and take a load off, Johnny, and have a beer!
NON-Political discussion of the Civil War!
UnionBlue, it's all politics! That's what started the war!
And what sort of discussion would you have?
You'd have to leave most of it OUT!
(And BTW, what did you think of my question concerning the origin of the PC name they use today?).
They now talk about famous generals and battles of the war, reenacting and other nonpolitical areas.
Talking about the Civil War under the objective that such things as Lincoln, secession, slavery, and antebellum politics and commerce not be mentioned.......
No. We aren't. I was talking about discussion. I've yet to see you actually discuss anything.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
No. We aren't. I was talking about discussion. I've yet to see you actually discuss anything.
ole
Fine. Meet you half way, then!
debate |diˈbāt|
noun
a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.
• an argument about a particular subject, esp. one in which many people are involved : the national debate on abortion | there has been much debate about prices.
We could do what UnionBlue wants if we were all on the same side!
But we ain't, (as you can hardly fail to have noticed!).
Dear Unionblue,
Leaving aside that I enjoy backbiting and bickering personally, you have half a point.
The "issues" that take up much of the "Secession" forum, like Black Confederates, are issues no real historian takes seriously. The supposed Celtic influence of Southern culture that McWhiney advocated and you sometimes see repeated here is obviously nonsense. But the people who promote these views accept them as articles of faith, they are literally unreachable by argument and reason.
I'm not happy about the often nasty personal tone of this forum either. If I wanted to listen to a lot of sarcasm and personal attacks I could spend time with my family.
But you have only half a point. I am firmly opposed to deleting this forum. Its the most popular forum on this site. A tremendous amount of information has been made available that I, anyway, didn't know before. Wonderful books have been recommended. The spiral into the Civil War is one of the most interesting periods in history for me, and this forum has been a tremendous boon. Ideas and arguments that seem stale to you are fresh to newcomers.
Also I don't think you're particularly serious about this proposition--what are your actual reasons for starting this thread?
I don't see how we could; as has been mentioned prior there is much information that has been brought forward that I never would have known. It's a forum that opens up whole new avenues of study.
My frustration over the last year has been a resurgence of poor scholarship and worse; people showing up just to get a rise. I found out a month or so ago that CWT is an outright target for some on a couple Lost Causer boards and your Slavery the cause thread in particular. We had a rash of pretenders show up just to go after the membership of this board. They ranted, raved and whined; a couple were banned for stepping over the line but the board is still here and they're not. Scholarship, honesty & integrity prevails.
They cannot silence honest research and ideas here; so they try to bury them, hijack the thread & scream censorship & bias to the four winds. Little men w/ ideas they know are founded in lies.
The mod staff has a kind of hands off approach; let people voice their opinions. Sometimes that gets heated and the thread takes an ugly turn, things get personal & it gets locked. I dare voice my opinion which has made me the target of some pretty nasty things. Shrug, hopefully it's me getting it and not one of the other members.
I believe Ami made a comment once: "If you want to talk about the Civil War; you have to have a thick skin." It's quite true.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I've noticed that over on another Civil War forum they have dropped their "Causes of the War" section due to the name-calling and back-biting it continually causes.
They now talk about famous generals and battles of the war, reenacting and other nonpolitical areas.
How about we do the same here at this forum?
Unionblue
I must regretably disagree with unionblue for the issue of politics does bring out good and bad in us.
The bad is only name calling which can be hurtful but not life threatening, plus we have "MOD GUYS" and they seem to do their job well.
The good is truly amazing like what Jpete, Feddy, Hanny and Cash have done on the thread "Lincoln did Provoke the War". These guys have gone out of their way to re-argue the Texas vs White, 1869, and impressive job.
So yes some feeling are hurt and sometime everyone loses sight of the topic but that is the passion we have for the Civil War and History but the good that comes out in the end out weights anyone's hurt feelings.
I have learn much and pondered new thoughts of that period for this board allows us to push the boundaries of discussion.
I have been on boards were everyone is nice and non-thing is learned and no one pushes and argument so not to hurt someone feeling or get band. I always end up leaving those boards for non thing is accomplished because truth is strangled by servility.
I am a great believer in free speech no matter how hurtful it is for truth can only shine when all the arguments are put forth.
This is a great board for it openness, lets remember that.
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
I've noticed that over on another Civil War forum they have dropped their "Causes of the War" section due to the name-calling and back-biting it continually causes.
They now talk about famous generals and battles of the war, reenacting and other nonpolitical areas.
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