Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
By Church I mean the Body of Christ in the U.S., consisting of all denominations. By torn apart I mean the splitting of denominations North and South, hostility between denominations, and between members of the same denominations and congregations. I read a book called : "The Mind of the Master Class", and it has a chapter that shows just how much the slavery issue caused all these problems in the Churches. I believe it is an offense to God, for those who claim to be His people, to be at each other's throats. The Church should be unified under the Gospel, and while the issue of slavery should have been dealt with, it should have been dealt with in a loving manner.
By Church I mean the Body of Christ in the U.S., consisting of all denominations. By torn apart I mean the splitting of denominations North and South, hostility between denominations, and between members of the same denominations and congregations. I read a book called : "The Mind of the Master Class", and it has a chapter that shows just how much the slavery issue caused all these problems in the Churches. I believe it is an offense to God, for those who claim to be His people, to be at each other's throats. The Church should be unified under the Gospel, and while the issue of slavery should have been dealt with, it should have been dealt with in a loving manner.
In a nutshell, when arguments of morality meet arguments of economics, people will more likely find attachment to the argument of economics.
This board is really not the place for a theological debate. However, it is well to remember denominations are not 'The' Church. There are no Baptists, Anglicans, Lutherans etc, etc, etc., in heaven, there are only true believers (thus followers) in Christ.
The division of the churches before and during the CW were manifestations of the fallen state of man and nature.
The true church remained intact and undivided across America and around the world, before, during and after the CW. As it has from the beginning and will to the end of time.
"Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
Thomas Jefferson Notes on the State of Virginia
This from a man who owned 187 slaves and later reneged on his promise to free them upon his death.
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
This from a man who owned 187 slaves and later reneged on his promise to free them upon his death.
Personally, I've never doubted he believed it, especially early in his life.
But like most colonials, he was just lousy at pushing emancipation without compensation. His thoughts got progressively weaker on the subject as he grew older.
I agree that denominations are not the Church. I just chose to phrase things that way.
I believe that theology is intrinsic to the conflict. The state of the Church determines the state of the country.
I believe the war came about as a result of the church not being what it was supposed to be. There are consequences to sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpnDownfall
This board is really not the place for a theological debate. However, it is well to remember denominations are not 'The' Church. There are no Baptists, Anglicans, Lutherans etc, etc, etc., in heaven, there are only true believers (thus followers) in Christ.
The division of the churches before and during the CW were manifestations of the fallen state of man and nature.
The true church remained intact and undivided across America and around the world, before, during and after the CW. As it has from the beginning and will to the end of time.
Gonna hafta go along with Mr. McKeon on this one. Which sin?
I'll go on record as the biggest, baddest sinner there ever was. Well, maybe not in the top tier, but really close.
This is a Civil War Forum. Although personal faith in a just or vengeful God might figure into the discussion, let us not get carried away with the theology of the time. I dealt with enough of those anachronisms during my Sunday School years to last me a lifetime of faith-based bigotry.
Shall we just say that very nearly every player in the CW, placed in high or low roles, had a personal view of religion? And, given that assumption, it leads nowhere. The individual soldier had his faith, and the leaders loudly proclaimed that God was on their side.
I have to wonder why no one ever asked God which side was the good one? Or, if they did, why there was no answer" I still like Abe's speculation that it was not a matter of whose side God was on, but a one of which side was on God's side. Think about it.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
At this second appearing to take the oath of the presidential office, there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first. Then a statement, somewhat in detail, of a course to be pursued, seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of the great contest which still absorbs the attention, and engrosses the energies of the nation, little that is new could be presented. The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself; and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.
On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago, all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it--all sought to avert it. While the inaugeral [sic] address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war--seeking to dissole [sic] the Union, and divide effects, by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war; but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive; and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.
One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union, even by war; while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war, the magnitude, or the duration, which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has his own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"
With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan--to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.
A. Lincoln
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"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
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