Confederate Secession and the Naval Question

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by ole

You have an excellent point, Larry, in that the lack of confederate transportation was the basis of the confederate loss. It was not for lack of enthusiasm or valiant men, but the inability to feed, clothe and arm them.

Nashville and Memphis had adequate communication through much of the south, but they fell to Union gunboats. Memphis supplied Grant in '63. Nashville supplied Sherman in '64. Their supply came from boats and rails. But they fell to the boats.

And this was largely due to the brownwater navy.

ole

It must be your northern midwestern genes? I can't seem to grasp completely nor agree with you on this one. I can't speak for Memphis (those folks will fall for most anything), but Nashville fell to the threat of Grant's army which was well on the way to Nashville when Forrest was charged with the duty of removing as many supplies as possible (which he did) before Grant showed up in force. Last I heard Grant wasn't driving a gunboat; looked more like a horse. A bunch of Dickson and Huston County farmboys, after a couple of weeks practice with their big Confederate cannons blew hell out of the invading Union navy at Ft. Donelson. A few gunboats did patrol the Cumberland as far as Nashville, but were little or no thread to anyone but themselves. Col. D.C. Kelly with his small mobile artillery wreaked serious havoc on five gunboats on the Cumberland 10 miles west of Nashville on or about December 10, 1864 just prior to the battle for Nashville Dec 15-17. Still no attack on Nashville itself. The Cumberland was and still is nothing much more than a ditch, no place for a navy. The Tennessee was even less navigable because of the shoals near the Tennessee-Alabama line (Muscle Shoals). Yankee boats (first word in a sentence, not meant for endorsement) were forced to download at places like New Johnsonville and Clifton. TVA hadn't arrived with dams (though they've been ****ed many times in Tennessee since then), so naval action is Tennessee was close to nil. The Chickamauga Cherokee did sink a few rafts from time to time, but that is another story and a much earlier time.

[Glad to see my little mechanical censor buddy is still alive and kicking. Sometimes I have a tendency to write bad words, though I never considered **** and **** to be two of them! Hope he has a beneficial new year, which is also my hope for the rest of you folks!]

[matthew mckeon]

I'm going to chime in on larry's side in this. A navy in the Civil War was a good thing, and a useful thing, but not a crucial factor. The war was fought on land, over land and the armies were mostly supplied by land or at most rivers. We didn't have much of a navy during the American Revolution, yet managed to hold out against the premier naval power of the world.
Part of this comes from my natural skepticism about a single factor being decisive in winning anything. In reading books written before WWII, writers confidently state the Germans, cut off from vital war materials, couldn't sustain a war. Grant once wrote that war is "progressive" meaning the war fighting conditions and factors evolve under the pressure of events.

[ole]

Sorry guys, hadn't intended to claim that the navy single-handedly whupped the rebs -- just that it was a significant factor in the drubbing. It was the sole source of supply for those troops isolated in SC, NC, FL and LA. It was a major transport until the Tennessee railroads were secured and even then it continued to play a role. There'd have been no City Point without the supply boats. There'd have been no Ft. Donelson, no Shiloh and no Vicksburg without the boats. An overland campaign to Mobile couldn't have taken it at the time it was taken.

The boots on the ground were essential, but a lot of those boots came on boats.

ole

[5fish]

Could not one say that the unions early success in the west was due the rivers running from north to south acting like big super highways into southern states. The rivers in the west gave Grant and the union army a big advantage over the confederate army in moving goods and troops fast into the southern states.

While in east the rivers ran from west to east acting like a defensive barriers to the union army instead of like highways. The rivers in the east gave Lee and the confederate army a big advantage over the union army.

I do agree the south's poor transportation system from roads, rails, to rivers was a major cause of their failed war effort.

Are there any famous river battles between the union and confederate brown navies?

[Freddy]

In 1863 the Union army reinforced Vicksburg using a fleet of steamers to carry troops and supplies down the Mississsippi. From my great grandfather's diary.


June 12th.
Our fleet of 11 steamers got underway at sunrise this morning. Just below Memphis passes wrecks of rebel gunboats sunk during the attack on the place a year or more ago. The scenery below Memphis nearly the same as above it. Here and there a plantation can be seen stretching along the rive bank. The dwellings of the planters seem a hundred years behind the age in style and convenience. They have little about them that is attractive. Many of them mere one-story buildings unpainted. Adjoining them could be seen the log cabins of the slaves standing in rows close together. The day has been quite warm-have made out to shelter ourselves somewhat from the sun by using our tents or blankets. Got asleep today in the sun, which is very weakening. Must be more cautious about this if I would keep my health. The scene of the starting of our fleet was novel and lively music by various bands on one steamer was provided with a “calliope” which added its melody to that of the bands. Each steamer was crowded with men and batteries and stores, each had its guard on the hurricane deck, or some a section of a battery ready as guard against guerrillas, whose reports say are ready to pounce upon any unarmed steamer. Card playing or novel reading the principle methods of spending the time among most of the men. Have found some good reading with which to pass the time. Hauled up opposite Napoleon, Arkansas for the night and sent a picket on shore for the night.

[Freddy]

Before the IX Corps traveled to Vicksburg it left Baltimore by rail to Pittsburgh and then on to Cincinnati in just three days.



March 27th
...Arrived at Baltimore at 12 AM. A two-mile march through the center of the city brought us to the Depot of the Northern Central R. R. and just at dark we were fairly on board, 40 to a car, in box freight cars. A barrel of boiled pork was stuck into each car, which with our three days rations of “hard tack” or hard bread was to be our food to Pittsburgh. It is now pretty certain we are going to Kentucky to be placed there as a sort of a reserve. Got away from Baltimore at near 12 at midnight.

March 29th.
A ride of 360 miles has brought us to Pittsburgh, arriving at 7:30 AM. The ride from Baltimore has been as pleasant as could be expected....Got treated at Miflin, PA to hot coffee. At Alatoona the rear car containing the officers became detached and they were left behind, so we arrived in Pittsburgh without them. Had a cold time of it waiting in the cars or about the streets for their arrival. Soon as they came we were marched to a large hall ant treated to a fine collation of quite a variety of luxuries, i.e. so to us. At 1 PM we were placed on board good passenger cars and started for Cincinnati....

March 30th.
Arrived at Cincinnati at 8:30 PM. Were treated to a fine repast at one of the market houses of the city at near 1 o’clock, and then took ferry and crossed the Ohio River to Covington, Ky.

[samgrant]

This is great stuff, Freddy. Give us more!

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[Freddy]

Go to www.civilwardiary.net where anyone can read the diary. At the bottom of each page click on the blue link with the month/year to go to the next page. The first page link is diary1863.

[samgrant]

I wonder where you found that diary?

Some moke named Leo Griffin apparently has a copy of my old cousin Henry's diary, but doesn't respond to my email inquiries.


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[Freddy]

It is my website. I put my great grandfather's diary on it. My high school history teacher made a copy of a hardbound copy I lent him in 1971. Later during the new computer age he had his AP students digitize it. I copyrighted it and felt anyone should be able to read it.