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Civil War History - Secession and Politics Was it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.

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  #201  
Old 01-31-2008, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
Let's take a look-

Who were the biggest Anti-Semites in the American Civil War?

Very easy answer...no one compares in the South...not even close-

Sherman

Grant

and

Ben "those Jews...those Jews" Butler
Correct! Absolutely Correct!

Beowulf
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  #202  
Old 01-31-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by unionblue View Post
Beowulf,

In other words, you CAN'T find Hitler directly quoting anything about Lincoln, can you?

Unionblue
No, not at the moment. (But, I believe I said that...).

Still, do they not both agree on states lack of sovereignty, where empire is both concerned, and interested?

Beowulf
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  #203  
Old 01-31-2008, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
Leave it to Battalion to use a Holocaust-denying group as his gospel. Of course a neo-Nazi site will try to make people think Rauschning was a fraud. Those who know their history will know differently.

Just more of his typical incompetent posting. I wonder if Battalion agrees with all that the IHR stands for.

Regards,
Cash

Last edited by cash; 01-31-2008 at 11:18 PM.
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  #204  
Old 02-01-2008, 08:24 AM
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Beowulf,

Quote:
"Still, do they not both agree on states lack of sovereignty, where empire is both concerned, and interested?"
No.

I believe the author of the article (It is Prof. DiLorenzo, is it not?) is trying everything in his power to imply such, but he does not do so when all he does is carefully select and distort the view he presents.

Unionblue
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"The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass

"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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  #205  
Old 02-01-2008, 09:17 AM
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Leave it to Cash to utilize a fraud that's been exposed as such for a quarter century.
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POWER & MONEY

"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861

Last edited by Battalion; 02-01-2008 at 09:22 AM.
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  #206  
Old 02-01-2008, 12:29 PM
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Default Secession: Always viewed as a right?

So far, in all of Beowulf's posts, has, mentioned three actual sources for 'Any' of his claims of knowledge; 1) DiLorenzo; 2) Hitler and 3) Lincoln.
Apparently DiLorenzo, refuses to support Beowulf and it turns out Hitler's idea's are closer to Beowulf's than ours and, of course, it turns out that Beowulf and Lincoln are soulmates, in their belief that Revolution and Secession are the same (at least concerning the CW).
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  #207  
Old 02-01-2008, 12:58 PM
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Institute for Historical Review

Is evidence that those who claim fraud are using a known Holocaust denial/anti semite and 9-11 conspiracy site to do so. That's the problem w/ being able to track back a link to where it came from.

Credible: Cash
Not Credible: the despicable site used to attack him.
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Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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  #208  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:25 PM
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Default Sources I have used...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpnDownfall View Post
So far, in all of Beowulf's posts, has, mentioned three actual sources for 'Any' of his claims of knowledge; 1) DiLorenzo; 2) Hitler and 3) Lincoln.
Apparently DiLorenzo, refuses to support Beowulf and it turns out Hitler's idea's are closer to Beowulf's than ours and, of course, it turns out that Beowulf and Lincoln are soulmates, in their belief that Revolution and Secession are the same (at least concerning the CW).
Greg Loren Durand - AMERICA'S CAESAR compilation of period writings.

Frank Conner - THE SOUTH UNDER SIEGE 1830-2000

Thomas J. Dilorenzo - The Real Lincoln

Hudson Strode - The Jefferson Davis Trilogy (1959)

Ishbel Ross - The First lady of the Confederacy (1958)

Southern Partisan Magazine

Civil War Reenactors (both sides) from Shiloh to Ontario Canada, Western Theatre and Eastern Theatre campaign
reenactors. Most of the Northern and Southern battlefields.

Living Historians from films such as GODS AND GENERALS,
The History Channel, and SCV and SUV units across the country...

To date, after six years of immersion into this realm, and era, I have yet to hear anything like Cash has produced.

The settled beliefs circulating are that Trade Tariff Taxes were predominantly paid by the South, that Lincoln sought to challenge trade at Sumter, and defend Northern economy. Slavery was an abolitionist problem, and one that became a grand excuse later in the war, when emancipation by Lincoln, carried out as a military agenda,
was employed (and which is generally thought to have failed).

There is great back and forth on these issues, but that is the generally-accepted rhetoric one hears at these events.
Some take Slavery as the main reasoning, and some
take Taxation and Invasion as the primary catalysts.

What Cash suggests boggles the mind, when one takes it as truth. Lincoln, then, had absolutely no reason for being at Sumter, nor refusing to follow the advice of his cabinet,
nor Major Anderson, nor the majority of the United States opinion, at that time (save for his Northern capitalists, who stood to lose a bundle). I am at a loss for words, at the moment.

And, as Cash declines any sources save his own, it is rather difficult to have a conversation. He posits that most of my sources are "liars", out of hand.

I am thinking on having Cash list his books for me, so I
can start my own investigation into them.

His books certainly are not the settled order of discussion at reenactments and living histories!

I am wondering why they are not!

Beowulf
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  #209  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:51 PM
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Default Secession: Always viewed as a right?

Beowulf, Your 'settled beliefs circulating' may be making their rounds among 'Lost Cause' entusiasts, but they are not settled in the real world, in fact, rather the opposite, I think.
Please post Cash's comments that boggled your mind? You do not have to accept them as true; Just prove them wrong. After all if it is only his opinion, it should be easy enough to refute them categorically. (But you have to do your own research)
The fact that Cash's refs are not common knowlege among Reenactors, say 'Nothing' about their accuracy.


P.S. Beowulf's references, places him rather firmly in the shallow end of the pool.
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  #210  
Old 02-01-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johan_steele View Post

Is evidence that those who claim fraud are using a known Holocaust denial/anti semite and 9-11 conspiracy site to do so. That's the problem w/ being able to track back a link to where it came from.
I have no associations with this group...but it is apparent you and Cash are trying to falsely associate me with "holocaust denial" and anti-semitism.

Not surprised though as smear tactics are very typical of you.

Apparently the organization does not deny the holocaust (from their site)-

"The IHR is sometimes mischaracterized as a 'Holocaust denial' organization. This smear is completely at variance with the facts. The Institute does not 'deny the Holocaust.' Every responsible scholar of twentieth century history acknowledges the great catastrophe that befell European Jewry during World War II."

~

If the book "Hitler Speaks"/"Conversations with Hitler" (by an ex-Nazi trying to curry favor with his new allegiance) is true...then prove it.

The book is considered -at best- dubious by others-

"I have on no single occasion cited Hermann Rauschning's 'Hitler Speaks,' a work now regarded to have so little authenticity that it is best to disregard it altogether."

-Ian Kershaw Hitler, vol. 1 (Hubris), London, 1998, p. xiv

You can find the quote here (use 'search inside' function)-
Amazon.com: Hitler: 1889-1936 Hubris: Books: Ian Kershaw

Ian Kershaw
BBC NEWS | UK | Sir Ian Kershaw: Dissecting Hitler
Ian Kershaw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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POWER & MONEY

"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861

Last edited by Battalion; 02-01-2008 at 02:34 PM.
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In the United States, can a state legally secede from the Union? - Page 2 - Christian Forums This thread Refback 06-07-2008 04:57 AM
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