Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
"The controversy over federation and unification, so cunningly propagandized by the Jews in 1919-1920 and onwards, forced National So******m, which repudiated the quarrel, to take up a definite stand in relation to the essential problem concerned in it. Ought Germany to be a confederacy or a military State? What is the practical significance of these terms? To me it seems that the second question is more important than the first, because it is fundamental to the understanding of the whole problem and also because the answer to it may help to clear up confusion and therewith have a conciliating effect.
What is a Confederacy?
By a Confederacy we mean a union of sovereign states which of their own free will and in virtue of their sovereignty come together and create a collective unit, ceding to that unit as much of their own sovereign rights as will render the existence of the union possible and will guarantee it.
But the theoretical formula is not wholly put into practice by any confederacy that exists today. And least of all by the American Union, where it is impossible to speak of original sovereignty in regard to the majority of the states. Many of them were not included in the federal complex until long after it had been established. The states that make up the American Union are mostly in the nature of territories, more or less, formed for technical administrative purposes, their boundaries having in many cases been fixed in the mapping office. Originally these states did not and could not possess sovereign rights of their own. Because it was the Union that created most of the so-called states. Therefore the sovereign rights, often very comprehensive, which were left, or rather granted, to the various territories correspond not only to the whole character of the Confederation but also to its vast space, which is equivalent to the size of a Continent. Consequently, in speaking of the United States of America one must not consider them as sovereign states but as enjoying rights or, better perhaps, autarchic powers, granted to them and guaranteed by the Constitution. "
What is the purpose of quoting this part of Mein Kampf?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
The confederacy is supported by Hitler in his conversations with Hermann Rauschning. _Mein Kampf_ doesn't mention the Civil War, nor does it mention Lincoln.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan steele
"Since the Civil War, in which the Southern States were conquered, against all historical logic and sound sense, the American people have been in a condition of political and popular decay. ... The beginnings of a great new social order based on the principle of slavery and inequality were destroyed by that war, and with them also the embryo of a future truly great America." -- Adolf Hitler from Hermann Rauschning's _Conversations With Hitler._
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Stop wiggling Battalion, the last quote is almost the verbatim gospel, according to the Lost Cause(rs) mythos.
Let's take a look-
Who were the biggest Anti-Semites in the American Civil War?
Very easy answer...no one compares in the South...not even close-
Sherman
Grant
and
Ben "those Jews...those Jews" Butler
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
I'm personally grateful that Battalion has at long last posted something of value. And understandable, too.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
What is the purpose of quoting this part of Mein Kampf?
As a recap Beowulf suggested, actually I think he claimed, that Hitler thought pretty highly of Mr Lincoln. It's an old tactic and claim w/ no foundation in reality, which I believe you already know. If all else fails look to the words of the man, in context.
The link should take you to an online copy of Hitlers book. Feel free to paruse at your leisure.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Mein Kampf doesn't mention the Civil War, nor does it mention Lincoln. Do you disagree? If so please site from the original source.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Mein Kampf doesn't mention the Civil War, nor does it mention Lincoln. Do you disagree? If so please site from the original source.
I have no interest in the Mein Kampf sub-discussion going on on this thread other than being curious as to why you posted a particular section of it.
Whether Hitler mentions Lincoln or not is no matter to me.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Here are several posts from an earlier thread on Hitler that turned ugly enough for Ami to lock. I want to thank those who actually contributed real information to the thread instead of the flame bait tossed about by said twit that was banned. I apologize for not directly crediting those who found this information as I cut and pasted the relevant points to my notes on the subject never intending to need to use them. Again my apologies.
Beowulf; following you will find a link to Hitlers drek as well as the relevent passages. If you wish to refute them please cite the original work. If you can't... you've now seen actual research vs the distortion and outright lie that sent you down this particular avenue.
"The controversy over federation and unification, so cunningly propagandized by the Jews in 1919-1920 and onwards, forced National So******m, which repudiated the quarrel, to take up a definite stand in relation to the essential problem concerned in it. Ought Germany to be a confederacy or a military State? What is the practical significance of these terms? To me it seems that the second question is more important than the first, because it is fundamental to the understanding of the whole problem and also because the answer to it may help to clear up confusion and therewith have a conciliating effect.
What is a Confederacy?
By a Confederacy we mean a union of sovereign states which of their own free will and in virtue of their sovereignty come together and create a collective unit, ceding to that unit as much of their own sovereign rights as will render the existence of the union possible and will guarantee it.
But the theoretical formula is not wholly put into practice by any confederacy that exists today. And least of all by the American Union, where it is impossible to speak of original sovereignty in regard to the majority of the states. Many of them were not included in the federal complex until long after it had been established. The states that make up the American Union are mostly in the nature of territories, more or less, formed for technical administrative purposes, their boundaries having in many cases been fixed in the mapping office. Originally these states did not and could not possess sovereign rights of their own. Because it was the Union that created most of the so-called states. Therefore the sovereign rights, often very comprehensive, which were left, or rather granted, to the various territories correspond not only to the whole character of the Confederation but also to its vast space, which is equivalent to the size of a Continent. Consequently, in speaking of the United States of America one must not consider them as sovereign states but as enjoying rights or, better perhaps, autarchic powers, granted to them and guaranteed by the Constitution. "
"Since the Civil War, in which the Southern States were conquered, against all historical logic and sound sense, the American people have been in a condition of political and popular decay. ... The beginnings of a great new social order based on the principle of slavery and inequality were destroyed by that war, and with them also the embryo of a future truly great America." -- Adolf Hitler from Hermann Rauschning's _Conversations With Hitler._
Thanks, anyway. My server won't bring up the link you gave. Safari "can't find" its own wires, most of the time.
My copy of SOUTHERN PARTISAN is not around at the moment, but D did a piece of it and gave quotes.
Here, in what you write, Hitler seems to be quoting Lincoln, and his mythological Union forming the several states.
The Union has never formed anything... It was THEM THE PEOPLE voting on whether or not to JOIN the UNION! The Union was a thing, and only a Union when it was voluntary...
An Empire, by definition, if not. One joins a Union; one is forced into an Empire, through force of arms and warfare. Through Civil War, or through Invasion.
The idea behind a Union was to keep states sovereign, and at peace with each the other.
union |ˈyoōnyən|
noun
1 the action or fact of joining or being joined, esp. in a political context : he was opposed to closer political or economic union with Europe | a currency union between the two countries.
• a state of harmony or agreement : they live in perfect union.
3 (also Union) a political unit consisting of a number of states or provinces with the same central government, in particular
• the U.S., esp. from its founding by the original thirteen states in 1787–90 to the secession of the Confederate states in 1860–61.
(Note the success of the secession by the Southern states!)
(Note the absence of Union after 1861, as the definition!)
(Note the failure to mention the conquest of the sovereign
states of the Confederacy in 1865!).
A Force Union, now, or Empire. Like the British Empire.
And a Constitution, thus written in such arguable language, it has both sides claiming it!
Hitler is saying you can't have it both ways! I agree with him, here.
He is also saying that the states formed later are not of as much importance as the original 13 colonies.
They really aren't! New England dictates! We are all called YANKEES abroad! New England's name, which was given to them by the British (Yankee doodle dandies!) (They are even going to 'win' all the games this year in the NFL! Think about it! What other team is named after a clump of states? And, in particular, THAT clump of states?). :smile:
In the last paragraph, I agree with Hitler's first sentence, but not his second one. I can see where he is coming from in his second sentence (... if indeed Hitler had anything to actually do with these sentences. I am playing along here).It was the ending of an old social order, where White Male patricians ran things, and women, children, and others didn't.
But as a Fascist dictator, he is against Collectivism, Collectivist Dictators, Lincoln as an art form (for trying to placate the abolitionists in his party), and The Confederate States of America as sovereign entities, as he states above... He is obviously a Fascist.
In other words, you CAN'T find Hitler directly quoting anything about Lincoln, can you?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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