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Civil War History - Secession and Politics Was it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.

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  #11  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:14 PM
5fish's Avatar
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Default 90% what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitworth
"However, the rate of expropriation was much lower than has generally been presumed. Over the course of his lifetime, the typical slave field hand received about 90 percent of the income he produced."

Economically, that is not possible. Plantation owners were getting a great return on their investment in slaves. One need only look at the life of many plantation owners, their homes, their education, their standard of living, and then compare it to the average Southern farmer with no slaves.
I agree with whitworth.

This "90% return" is a fallacy for all a slave got was a place to live, food, minor medical care, and some got training in skills like blacksmith so on.

Now add up cost of where you live, your food cost, your medical care, and education. Does it equal 90% of your lifetime income. NO! it does not.

So how could a slave get 90% return on what he produced based on the item I listed. The quality of the items the slaves received was poor too.

Another southern fallacy.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2008, 07:46 AM
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Default H.K. Edgerton recent report

Some of you northern thinking folks might find this interesting. H. K. Edgerton is an ambassador for Southern Confederate history. You'll notice he is far from dissapointed concerning his heritage.

Subject: March Across Dixie Re-Union/ An Open Report/ hk@csaweb.org/
> Southern Heritage 411
>
> Tuesday morning December 11, 2007, I would arrive in Weatherford, Texas
> where later that evening, I would dine with and later speak to
> members of
> the Governor Sam Lanham Camp #586 of the Sons of Confederate Veterans
> alsongside other members of the public which would include a one Mr.
> Bud
> Kennedy,a local news reporter who had become notorious for
> lambashing the
> Southern Cross, and those who would defend her.
>
> I believe Mr. Kennedy to be somewhat surprised at the show of love, and
> awards of recognition that these folks he and many others had
> dipicted as
> racist , cynical and somewhat evil would bestow upon a handsome old
> gray
> haired Black man on this evening. Not far into my speech, I would in
> my most
> diplomatic tone, warn Mr. Kennedy that if he did not report
> accurately the
> events and message that he would witness on this evening; I would be
> standing in front of his office, in my uniform, with my Flag, until
> he did.
>
> I don't know if it was the part of my speech that I purported that
> it was
> trained cadre of Black folks all across the South that made the
> implements
> of war for the Southern army, and provided the food stuffs to keep
> it fed,
> or the part where I said that loyal Black folks stayed at home and
> protected
> those plantations alongside the Southern White woman because most of
> the men
> were away, or the part where I said that Black folks had earned a
> place of
> honor and dignity alongside the man he not only called Master,but also
> family and friend, whether it had been in the field of battle, or at
> his
> side in the cotton fields, sugar or beet fields; with not only the
> axe and
> horse as his tools of choice, but the Christian Bible which would
> guide them
> both to a love for one another in lieu of the economic institution of
> slavery that had bound them together, or the part that I said it was
> members
> of his media that made heroes of Jessee and Al who had gone to a
> place like
> Jena, and armed with the very same Reconstruction modus operandi
> used with
> the establishment of the so called Freedmens Bureau and the Public
> School
> system in the South, had depicted a people because they were White
> Southerners as being racist, and tried to shame both white and black
> folks
> from speaking to each other who had developed loving relations for a
> life
> time; and furthermore I would tout; I too had been to Jena, and
> armed with
> only the Confederate Battle Flag and a loyal White friend who only
> wanted to
> be called a Son of a Confederate Veteran and my brother, had stood
> in the
> same spot where Al, Jessee and the New Black Panther Party whose
> message was
> to hate Whitey, embraced a loving and kind people, or if it was the
> part
> where I said that it was high time for this nation to pay it's bills
> to the
> Southern people; they had been an honorable lot who had from lack of
> want or
> desire enetered into an economic institution called slavery, and had
> looked
> around and found a people whose station appeared to be more
> civilized and
> humane than the one they had been forced from, and far better in most
> instances than those of other European lands, to include their very own
> North, or just maybe it was the part where I said that had the South
> been
> left alone; the African people under the tutorage of the Southern
> White man,
> were on a coarse of greatness and social vertical mobility
> unheralded in the
> course of humane events.
>
> I could go on with what it might have been what I said. However,
> needles to
> say, whatever it was, to this very day, Mr. Kennedy who would pose with
> pictures with me and others who had gathered on this night, and even
> leave a
> donation at the traditional passing of the hat, has never written
> one single
> word about the night that a Black Confederate came to town.
>
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_cockerham View Post
Some of you northern thinking folks might find this interesting. H. K. Edgerton is an ambassador for Southern Confederate history. You'll notice he is far from dissapointed concerning his heritage.

He's allowed to be as wrong as he wants, and it looks like he wants to be really, really wrong. This is America, and he has the freedom to do that.

Regards,
Cash
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2008, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cash View Post
He's allowed to be as wrong as he wants, and it looks like he wants to be really, really wrong. This is America, and he has the freedom to do that.

Regards,
Cash
Cash, I believe you jumped to too hastily formed conclusions here. While he does get a bit theatrical from time to time, H.K. is a man of considerable sincerity and is full of human kindness. I've looked into his brown eyes a few times. He doesn't flinch. Imagine being an aging man of African descent walking around in Confederate re-enactment garb telling folks that you respect your ancestors place in history and that yes, black folks did fight for the south and were proud of having done so. He has done that many times and faced some rather boisterous and threateningly stern folks face to face on many occasions. Along with his brother Terry Lee, who acts as a traveling companion and body guard when he's not teaching drumming to autistic children, H.K. is a very successful ambassador for social harmony. Whether you agree with him or know, you gotta give him credit for gumption. I've seen hundreds of previously skeptical folks come away from one of his presentations with changed outlooks regarding his sincerity.
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Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2008, 09:04 AM
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"...or just maybe it was the part where I said that had the South been left alone; the African people under the tutorage of the Southern White man, were on a coarse of greatness and social vertical mobility unheralded in the course of humane events."

Only if when he says vertical he means straight down. Rights for free blacks and slaves in the South were shrinking and eroding, not improving. Frankly I think the man is making a mockery of the South and laughing all the way to the bank while he does so.
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Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2008, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_cockerham View Post
Cash, I believe you jumped to too hastily formed conclusions here. While he does get a bit theatrical from time to time, H.K. is a man of considerable sincerity and is full of human kindness.
Wrong is wrong, no matter how sincere one may appear, and he's wrong. What he is selling has nothing to do with actual history.

Regards,
Cash
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_cockerham View Post
H.K. is a man of considerable sincerity and is full of human kindness. I've looked into his brown eyes a few times. He doesn't flinch.
Was that when he was selling you one of his T-shirts?

Regards,
Cash
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cash View Post
Was that when he was selling you one of his T-shirts?

Regards,
Cash
This Tshirt below is available on H.K.'s 411.com's website. Does anyone recognize the photograph?




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  #19  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:40 PM
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Fagawds sake, Cedar. Are they really pushing that photo of a Pennsy USCT unit as evidence. Is there no surcease?
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2008, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ole View Post
Fagawds sake, Cedar. Are they really pushing that photo of a Pennsy USCT unit as evidence. Is there no surcease?
For just $16 bucks you can have your very own piece of gen-u-ine confederate history. (in two styles)

And maybe H.K will autograph it for you.

Cedarstripper
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