Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
The Emigrants' Aid Society was to encourage free staters to settle in Kansas, so under "popular sovereignty" Kansas would become a free state. Emigrant, not immigrant.
It appears that one-third of Union troops were foriegn born immigrants, mainly Irish, Germans, and Brits.
I see an opening here, and this is an attempt only to close it.
The foreign born might not have been recent immigrants. How many were infants or children when they immigrated?
Seems that, for this discussion, we're primarily interested in how many were recruits right after they got off the boat? Many of the Germans, for example, had been in the states for years. If we assume the same to be true of the Irish, the 1/3 figure cannot, at least be a basis for claiming recruiting in Europe. I suspect that's what you meant with
Quote:
That being the case it was likely unnecessary to recruit in Europe as many here were joining.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I read an interesting book called "Hard Times and Tough Men" about Irish immigration into Maine.
Interesting points:
Irish immigrants were called "Greek" (slur of Gaelic).
Legendary story: The first Catholic Church in Bangor became the object of outrage by local Protestants. A mob formed one night, marched to the church to be confronted by two men armed with double barrelled shotguns. They convinced the mob to disperse. They weren't parishioners, but the insurance agents that had just sold a fire insurance policy to the parish. Author's conclusion,"It took a tough man to sell insurance in Bangor."
Bangor had a militia unit called the Bangor Light Infantry, a tony outfit(for Maine), for Protestants only. The recent Catholic arrivals formed their own regiment, called the Grattan Guards. The two units were combined to make the 2nd Maine Infantry, which fought in several engagements and was famously persuaded to join the 20th Maine shortly before its appointment with destiny at Little Round Top. The 2nd Maine always had a turbulent history. On the ship from Maine to Washington DC in 1861, a vicious brawl broke out onboard, and the regimental colors thrown overboard.
Ole,
Good point. In the website linked to Freddy's post, the numbers are broken down a little. Some of the foreign born units(maybe I'm reading it wrong), were actually USCTs.
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Benjamin- Secretary of State Judah P. Benjamin Mason- Confederate Commissioner James M. Mason Hotze- Henry Hotze, Confederate agent in London MacFarland- J.E. MacFarland, Secretary of Confederate Commission
"By the last European and Northern mails we are informed that extensive enlistments are now in progress in Ireland of recruits for the armies of the United States. It is, of course, impossible for us here to be as well informed on this subject as you must be in London, but there seems to be an absence of all disguise in the public journals, and no intimation is given of any effort on the part of her Majesty’s Government to arrest so flagrant a breach of the neutrality which has been announced as the fixed policy of Great Britain. It is assumed, however, that so grave a matter can not have escaped your attention and that you have not failed both to procure the necessary evidence to establish the facts and to place that evidence with proper representations in possession of Earl Russell."
Benjamin to Mason, 29 April 1863
~
"The information, as it reached me, was that extensive shipments of Irishmen were made from time to time from Liverpool, whose passages were paid, and who, it was said, had received small bounties in advance, with other circumstances tending to show that they were intended for military service in America, although the engagement entered into was to work on railroads, as farm laborers, or in some other evasive form. I took the only measures in my power to uncover the real purpose of this emigration by authorizing a gentleman at Liverpool (entirely to be trusted) to employ such agents or detectives there fit for such service to procure the proper evidence, stipulating to pay them such compensation as he might promise. His latest report was that he had such men at work, but so far they had been unable to make any discoveries clear enough to found a representation to the Government. Of course, every precaution is taken by the Federal agents in England and Ireland to conceal the real design of these enlistments, and it will probably be no easy matter to make a case for the Government to interpose; still I beg you to be assured that it shall be diligently followed up, and in such manner as shall best promise success....
I observe that the subject of these alleged enlistments in Ireland was brought before the House of Commons (I think on Monday last) by a question to Lord Palmerston, whether they were being made, and whether any steps had been taken by the Government to prevent them. The reply of Lord Palmerston was, that these alleged enlistments had been brought to the notice of the Government, and that enquiries in the proper quarter had been promptly instituted, and should be diligently prosecuted to ascertain the truth; and if true, proper measures would be taken to punish the parties implicated."
Mason to Benjamin, 4 June 1863
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"A detective who has been employed in Liverpool reports that from the character of the emigrants, the small proportion of females, and the fact that the passages of the men are nearly all paid by Marshall & Co., of New York, he has no doubt of the character of the emigration, but that legal evidence can only be procured by going to Ireland and duping the recruiting agents."
Hotze to Benjamin, 6 June 1863
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"As pertaining to the subject of your last dispatch, it may be proper to observe that on an enquiry made in the House of Commons a few days since with respect to the alleged recruiting for the Federal Army going on in Ireland, the chief secretary for Ireland, Sir Robert Peel, stated that the Government were aware of the presence there of Federal agents, though, of course, they did not openly recruit; that a great number of young men had certainly gone from Ireland to America whose passage had been paid, and that they had every reason to suppose that many had been induced to enlist in the Federal Army; that the Government was following the matter up and endeavoring to come at the facts if possible."
MacFarland to Benjamin, 6 June 1863
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"I wrote to Mr. Dowling, commercial agent at Cork, with full instructions to collect evidence, if practicable, in regard to the supposed Federal enlistments in Ireland. Should it be obtained the subject shall be, as you direct, brought before Earl Russell."
Mason to Benjamin, 12 June 1863
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"You have, in accordance with your proposals made to this Department, been detailed by the Secretary of War for special service under my orders.
The duty which is proposed to entrust to you is that of a private and confidential agent of this Government for the purpose of proceeding to Ireland and there using all legitimate means to enlighten the population as to the true nature and character of the contest now waged on this continent, with the view of defeating the attempts made by the agents of the United States to obtain in Ireland recruits for their armies. It is understood that under the guise of assisting needy persons to emigrate, a regular organization has been formed of agents in Ireland who leave untried no method of deceiving the laboring population into emigrating, for the ostensible purpose of seeking employment in the United States, but really for recruiting the Federal armies.
The means to be used by you can scarcely be suggested from this side, but they are to be confined to such as are strictly legitimate, honorable, and proper. We rely on truth and justice alone. Throw yourself as much as possible into close communication with the people where the agents of our enemies are at work. Inform them by every means you can devise of the true purposes of those who seek to induce them to emigrate. Explain to them the nature of the warfare which is carried on here. Picture to them the fate of their unhappy countrymen who have already fallen victims to the arts of the Federals. Relate to them the story of Meagher’s brigade, its formation and its fate. Explain to them that they will be called on to meet Irishmen in battle, and thus imbrue their hands in the blood of their own friends and perhaps kinsmen, in a quarrel which does not concern them and in which all the feelings of a common humanity should induce them to refuse taking part against us. Contrast the policy of the Federal and Confederate States in former times in their treatment of foreigners, in order to satisfy Irishmen where true sympathy in their favor was found in periods of trial. At the North, the Know Nothing Party, based on hatred to foreigners and especially to Catholics, was triumphant in its career. In the South it was crushed, Virginia taking the lead in trampling it under foot. In this war such has been the hatred of the New England Puritans to Irishmen and Catholics, that in several instances the chapels and places of worship of the Irish Catholics have been burnt or shamefully desecrated by the regiments of volunteers from New England. These facts have been published in Northern papers. Take the New York Freeman’s Journal and you will see shocking details, not coming from Confederate sources, but from the officers of the United States themselves...."
Benjamin to Lt. J.L. Capston, 3 July 1863
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"The Secretary of War having relieved you temporarily from service in the army and placed you at the disposal of this Department for the purpose mentioned in our conferences, I now proceed to give you the instructions by which you are to be guided. With this view I copy the following passages of the instructions heretofore given to Lieutenant Capston [Benjamin to Capston, 3 July 1863], who was sent out by this Department in July last on a similar mission to that now confided to you....
If, in order fully to carry out the objects of the Government...you should deem it advisable to go to Rome for the purpose of obtaining such sanction from the sovereign pontiff as will strengthen your hands and give efficiency to your action, you are at liberty to do so, as well as to invite to your assistance any Catholic prelate from the Northern States known to you to share your convictions of the justice of our cause and of the duty of laboring for its success....
The Department expects much from your zeal, activity, and discretion, and is fully confident that you will justify its anticipations of the good to be effected by your mission."
Benjamin to Father John Bannon, 4 September 1863
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"I regret that I did not see Lieutenant Capston...as sent by the Department to Ireland. He remained, it appears, but a day or two in London, where he saw Mr. Hotze, to whom he was referred, and then proceeded on his mission. There being a recess here on public affairs at this season of the year, I availed myself of it to pay a visit to Ireland of a fortnight, whence I returned about the time Lieutenant Capston went there. His mission may be of value in obtaining information as to the manner in which emigrants are induced to go to the United States, and thus possibly furnish the means of countermovement on our part, but I should doubt whether he could make much impression upon the emigrating class in endeavors to enlighten them as to the true character of the war. Such seems the ignorant and destitute condition of most of that class that the temptation of a little ready money and promise of good wages would lead them to go anywhere.
In regard to this emigration I could learn only that it was going on largely, chiefly to New York, and under inducements offered by Northern emissaries, but always under the guise that they were wanted for work on railroads or as farm hands. Whatever aid I can render to give efficiency in the accomplishment of this mission shall be fully extended."
Mason to Benjamin, 4 September 1863
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"I enclose a dispatch from Mr. Dowling. the commercial agent at Queenstown, covering copies of two depositions affording legal evidence of Federal enlistments in that port under circumstances of gross disregard of the Queen’s proclamation. I have advised against any publicity being given to these documents for the moment, believing that the most effective use that can be made of them will be through the association now forming, and of which I spoke in my last. If not previously published, I think it likely that the association may make them the basis of a memorial to the foreign office."
Hotze to Benjamin, 28 November 1863
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"Your Irish agents, whose reports I enclose, will inform you of the state of things there. A curious result of the premature publications of the depositions previously mentioned, which happened accidentally and contrary to my advice, has been that the Kearsarge returned to Queenstown and landed the men enlisted."
Hotze to Benjamin, 26 December 1863
...to be continued
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
There is a great book to be written about the skullduggery in Britain during the Civil War around the recruiting issue here, arms shipments, the Laird Rams, the Alabama, etc. as Union and Confederate diplomats and agents duel.
Benjamin- Secretary of State Judah P. Benjamin Mason- Confederate Commissioner James M. Mason Hotze- Henry Hotze, Confederate agent in London MacFarland- J.E. MacFarland, Secretary of Confederate Commission
... ...to be continued
What you have here is a bunch of Confederates talking to one another about things that they either have no personal knowledge about or they have a vested interest in convincing their bosses they are on top of. No one doubts the Confederates thought the recruiting was being done in Europe, or at least convinced themselves that it was going on. Do you have any verifiable, independent data at all to establish that there was any such effort?
It is also undoubted, for example, that it was widely known that large bounties were available to anyone willing to travel to America and join the Union Army, and that some private individuals in America made appeals to their countrymen in Europe to come over and join the fight. For example, Bishop Hughes of New York was leading an appeal to get Irishmen to fight for the Union (and isn't it strange that a Catholic Bishop from New York is leading an effort to strengthen the North when you insist the Pope was supporting/recognizing the South?) But these are private efforts. There were no Federal recruiters in Europe, no way to join the US Army in Europe without first travelling to America.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
What you have here is a bunch of Confederates talking to one another about things that they either have no personal knowledge about or they have a vested interest in convincing their bosses they are on top of....
...but that would be an assumption.
We could also make the assumption that this was a white-wash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
Battalion,
While you are at your research, factor this in:
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WAR DEPARTMENT,
Washington City, June 27, 1864.
The PRESIDENT:
SIR: In answer to the Senate resolution of inquiry, passed June 24, 1864, and referred by you to this Department, I have the honor to reply:
First. That no authority has been given by this Department to any one, either in this country or elsewhere, to obtain recruits in Ireland or Canada for the Army of the United States.
Second. That no recruits have been obtained in Ireland or in Canada for the Army of the United States with my knowledge or consent, and, to the best of my information and belief, none have been obtained nor any effort made to obtain them.
Third. That neither Irishmen nor Canadians have with my knowledge, approbation, or consent, or with the knowledge, approbation, or consent of any one in this Department been induced to emigrate to this country in order to enlist into the Army.
Fourth. That no measures have been adopted by this Department to arrest any such conduct, because no information of any such conduct has reached the Department, and I do not believe that it has been practiced in any instance.
I will add that no encouragement or inducement whatever has been extended by this Department to any person or persons to obtain recruits for the Army anywhere beyond the limits of the United States.
I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
EDWIN M. STANTON,
Secretary of War.
=====
NAVY DEPARTMENT,
June 27, 1864.
The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:
SIR: I have the honor to acknowledge the reference to this Department of a resolution passed in the Senate of the United States on the 24th instant, requesting the President of the United States "to inform the Senate if any authority has been given to any one, either in this country or elsewhere, to obtain recruits in Ireland or in Canada for our Army or Navy; and whether any such recruits have been obtained, or whether, to the knowledge of the Government, Irishmen or Canadians have been induced to emigrate to this country in order to be so recruited; and if so, what measures, if any, have been adopted to arrest such conduct," and to state in reply that no such order as that indicated in the resolution has been given by the Navy Department to any one, either in this country or elsewhere, nor is the Navy Department aware that any such recruits have been obtained, or that inducements have been offered to Irishmen or Canadians to emigrate to this country in order to be so recruited.
On the occasion of a visit of the U.S. steamer Kearsarge to Queenstown, Ireland, in November last, several Irishmen secreted themselves on board the vessel, were carried off in her, and when discovered were returned to that port and put ashore. This circumstance gave rise to a charge that the Kearsarge had violated the foreign enlistment act of Great Britain. Captain Winslow, commanding the Kearsarge, disavowed having violated this act or any intention of permitting others under his command to do so. Explanations have been made to the British Government, and it is presumed the matter has been satisfactorily settled.
I am, sir, with very great respect, your obedient servant,
GIDEON WELLES,
Secretary of the Navy.
...-Replies from the Navy and War Departments.
What about the State Department?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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