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Civil War History - Secession and Politics Was it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.

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  #1  
Old 08-24-2007, 09:42 PM
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Default Vatican Recognition of the CSA

BRUSSELS, May 9, 1864.
His Excellency JEFFERSON DAVIS, President Confederate States of America:

Mr. PRESIDENT: Herewith I have the honor to transmit the letter which His Holiness Pope Pius IX addressed to Your Excellency on the 3d of December last. Mr. W. Jefferson Buchanan has obligingly undertaken its conveyance and will deliver it in person.

This letter will grace the archives of the Executive Office in all coming time. It will live forever in story as the production of the first potentate who formally recognized your official position and accorded to one of the diplomatic representatives of the Confederate States an audience in an established court palace, like that of St. James or the Tuileries.

I have the honor to be, with the most distinguished consideration, Your Excellency’s obedient servant, A. DUDLEY MANN

Pope Pius IX to "Illustrious and Hon. Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America"-

"Illustrious and honorable sir, greeting:

We have lately received with all kindness, as was meet, the gentlemen sent by your Excellency to present to us your letter dated on the 23d of last September. We have received certainly no small pleasure in learning both from these gentlemen and from your letter the feelings of gratification and of very warm appreciation with which you, illustrious and honorable sir, were moved when you first had knowledge written in October of the preceding year to the venerable brethren, John, archbishop of New York, and John, archbishop of New Orleans, in which we again and again urged and exhorted those venerable brethren that because of their exemplary piety and episcopal zeal they should employ their most earnest efforts, in our name also, in order that the fatal civil war which had arisen in the States should end, and that the people of America might again enjoy mutual peace and concord, and love each other with mutual charity. And it has been very gratifying to us to recognize, illustrious and honorable sir, that you and your people are animated by the same desire for peace and tranquility, which we had so earnestly inculcated in our aforesaid letters to the venerable brethren above named. Oh, that the other people also of the States and their rulers, considering seriously how cruel and how deplorable is this intercine war, would receive and embrace the councils of peace and tranquility. We indeed shall not cease with most fervent prayer to beseech God, the best and highest, and to implore Him to pour out the spirit of Christian love and peace upon all the people of America, and to rescue them from the great calamities with which they are afflicted. And we also pray the same most merciful Lord that he will illumine your Excellency with the light of His divine grace and unite you with ourselves in perfect charity.

Given at Rome at St. Peters on the 3d December, 1863, in the eighteenth year of our Pontificate.
PIUS P. P. IX.

[Addressed to:] Illustrious and Hon. JEFFERSON DAVIS, President of the Confederate States of America, Richmond."
http://0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.sou...IF&pagenum=975
also-
http://0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.sou...3DANU4519-0129

~


Cardinal Antonelli (Vatican Secretary of State) to "A. Dudley Mann, J. M. Mason, John Slidell, Commissioners of the Confederate States of America"-

"ROME, December 2, 1864.

HONORABLE GENTLEMEN: Your colleague, Mr. Soutter, has handed me your letter of 11th November, with which, in conformity with the instructions of your Government, you have sent me a copy of the manifesto issued by the Congress of the Confederate States and approved by the most honorable President, in order that the attention of the government of the Holy See, to whom, as well as to the other Governments, you have addressed yourselves, might be called to it. The sentiments expressed in the manifesto tending, as they do, to the cessation of the most bloody war which still rages in your countries and the putting an end to the disasters which accompany it by proceeding to negotiations for peace, being entirely in accordance with the disposition and character of the august head of the Catholic Church, I did not hesitate a moment in bringing it to the notice of the Holy Father.

His Holiness, who has been deeply afflicted by the accounts of the frightful carnage of this obstinate struggle, has heard with satisfaction the expression of the same sentiments; being the vicar on earth of that God who is the author of peace, he yearns to see these wraths appeased and peace restored. In proof of this he wrote to the archbishops of New York and New Orleans as far back as 18th October, 1862, inviting them to exert themselves in bringing about this holy object. You may then, honorable gentlemen, feel well assured that whenever a favorable occasion shall present itself, his Holiness will not fail to avail himself of it to hasten so desirable a result and that all nations may be united in the bonds of charity.

In acquainting you with this benignant disposition of the Holy Father, I am pleased to declare myself with sentiments of the most distinguished esteem.

Truly, your servant, G. Car. ANTONELLI. [DELIA S. S. L’I’MO.]

Messrs. A. DUDLEY MANN, J. M. MASON, JOHN SLIDELL, Commissioners of the Confederate States of America, Paris."
http://0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.sou...F&pagenum=1249

~


Comparison / British reply to same manifesto-

Lord John Russell (British Secretary of State), to "John Slidell, Esq., J. M. Mason, Esq., and A. Dudley Mann, Esq."-

"FOREIGN OFFICE, November 25, 1864.

GENTLEMEN: I have had the honor to receive the copy which you have sent me of the manifesto issued by the Congress of the so-called Confederate States of America....

....RUSSELL.

JOHN SLIDELL, Esq, J. M. MASON, Esq., and A. DUDLEY MANN, Esq."
http://0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.sou...F&pagenum=1246
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New York Times, 27 September 1861

Last edited by Battalion; 08-25-2007 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:33 PM
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After reading through the text of all three, all that I read is a wish for peace. Not recognition. Russell firmly states the desire of the British government to stay neutral. Definitely not recognition of a government, especially when Lord Russell calls the CSA the "so-called Confederate States of America."
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:45 PM
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Nap time!

Message too short.

Yawn. Nap time!
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:27 PM
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Default Northern Reaction

"A new and unexpected sensation greeted the wonder mongers on opening the New York papers, and reading the Pope's quasi recognition of the Confederacy. It had to be read and re-read to make sure of no mistake; but there it was in all its length and breadth, with the name in full of the Most Illustious Pontiff signed thereto. It rather took the breath at first so sudden and unexpected did it come upon us. Few indeed were they who were at first willing to express an offhand opinion of it. After a while, when they had recovered their breath, some Republican thought it a matter worth getting indignant over, and denounced it as villainous. The letter of the Pope is one of those small things of the world that are oftentimes more potent than an army with banners. It is on that account that thinking Republicans fear it. They regard it as the precursor of weightier matters unfriendly to the North."

Dubuque Herald, 29 January 1864
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"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Man0507
After reading through the text of all three, all that I read is a wish for peace. Not recognition. Russell firmly states the desire of the British government to stay neutral. Definitely not recognition of a government, especially when Lord Russell calls the CSA the "so-called Confederate States of America."
That British response is given as a comparison of address.
They had not recognized the Confederate States.
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"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861
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Old 08-25-2007, 12:02 AM
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quasi.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q082.htm

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Old 08-25-2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unionblue
"quasi"

Northern opinion.
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"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861
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Old 08-25-2007, 12:51 AM
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Really! Burping while I'm napping is just.....so.......uncool.
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Old 08-25-2007, 12:54 AM
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Battalion,

Quote:
"quasi"

Northern opinion.


Sorry, from a universal legal dictionary.

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"The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass

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Old 08-25-2007, 02:35 AM
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I don't know if a representative being received by the head of a church equals recognition as a government.

I wonder if the representative kissed His Holiness's ring.

Too bad Jeff Davis didn't send a representative to the Nation of Deseret. I'm sure Brigham Young would have recognized the CSA, after having half the US army camped in his back yard in the late 1850s!

Zou
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