Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I concur; if we're discussing Saxe-Coburg's recognition/application for exchequar (sp? never even seen that word before), that is certainely an in-depth analysis of the US Civil War!
I concur; if we're discussing Saxe-Coburg's recognition/application for exchequar (sp? never even seen that word before), that is certainely an in-depth analysis of the US Civil War!
"Exequatur". Basically, a Latin word for a letter (in diplomatic usage) authorizing the holder to act as a representative for his country/employer. All the other consuls, etc. in Confederate territory had an exequatur from the US government in Washington and refused to ask the Confederate government for one -- which is why the Confederates eventually tossed them all out on their ears.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
All the other consuls, etc. in Confederate territory had an exequatur from the US government in Washington and refused to ask the Confederate government for one -- which is why the Confederates eventually tossed them all out on their ears.
Now that's a new development. There were consuls all over the south in one post, and now they're all tossed out on their ears becase their exequaturs were US-issued. What's more, the consuls refused to ask the CS government for its exequaturs. What's wrong with this picture?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Corrections invited. Seems that a consul exists in various locations around a country to oversee business or commercial arrangements between the countries. You may have consuls in countries with whom you do not have diplomatic arrangements; that is, those you don't recognize. To be recognized means that a country sends you an ambassador and invites yours.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Duke Ernest II himself was a strong supporter of various plans to unite Germany into a single country throughout the period from the 1840s to the Unification of Germany in 1870-71. He favored a strong central authority and was opposed to rebellion and revolution against that authority. In 1866, he attached his Duchy's future to Prussia to further those purposes. The concepts of secession and parts of a nation breaking away from the central authority were completely opposite to what he stood for in his political life. Doesn't sound as if he would have given much support to the Confederacy.
Regards,
Tim
Many of the German immigants on the Northern side in the Civil War were "1848ers" -involved in the failed 1848 Rebellion in Germany.
I believe that would have soured any affection the Duke may have had for the North.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Now that's a new development. There were consuls all over the south in one post, and now they're all tossed out on their ears becase their exequaturs were US-issued. What's more, the consuls refused to ask the CS government for its exequaturs. What's wrong with this picture?
During 1862, several Confederate newspapers (the Charleston Mercury prominent among them) had led a campaign about this, which led the Confederate Congress to investigate. That is why Benjamin ends up making a report to them in which he tells the Congress that all of them except Raven had received their exequaturs from the US government and reported back home through their legations there. The Congress got kind of grumpy about that, although Benjamin tried to convince them that there were advantages to having them around.
In about June of 1863, the Confederates tossed the first of them, a man named Moore IIRR, a British Consul in Richmond. The reason given was that his US papers only gave him permission to act in Virginia, but that he was trying to act in other states. Others followed. Some were allowed to remain as private citizens, but the Confederates would not allow them to act as representatives of foreign governments anymore.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
I believe that would have soured any affection the Duke may have had for the North.
Then you should try finding out the facts instead of imagining things to suit yourself. It so happens that Duke Ernst II of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was the only senior ruler in the German states to continue his support of those people after the revolutions, and gave sanctuary to people fleeing from other regimes in the aftermath. Among others, he defied extradition requests from Prussia for the revolutionaries. He was quite famous for it. Once again, you are simply wrong about this.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
In Paris June 1864 "Since my last of 2d instant Bishop Lynch has arrived here; he will proceed to his ultimate destination in a few days. He appears to be admirably well fitted for the duties assigned to him and it has afforded me great pleasure to give him all the aid and information in my power."
Slidell to Benjamin, Paris, 11 June 1864
"Bishop Lynch left for Rome a few days since. While here he had an audience with the Emperor and two interviews with the minister of foreign affairs, of which he informs me that he has given you full details."
Slidell to Benjamin, Paris, 30 June 1864
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In Rome ~ July-October ~ 1864
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In Paris(?) ~ November-December ~ 1864 "Immediately on my arrival here I sought the residence of the Right Rev. Bishop Lynch and learned that he had left Rome, to be absent several weeks, in consequence of which the duty devolved upon me of delivering your dispatch to the Roman Government."
Soutter to Slidell, Rome, 21 November 1864
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In Rome ~ January 1865 to end of war "Bishop Lynch, of Charleston, South Carolina, returned from Paris to Rome a few days since. I know of no reason to suppose, however, that he is at all more likely to be received and acknowledged as an official representive of the rebel government than at his previous visit."
King to Seward, Rome, 7 January 1865
"Bishop Lynch is still in Rome, though in no accredited official position. I hear, however, that he and those who sympathize with him profess confident hopes of some European demonstration in behalf of the so-called Confederate States on or immediately after this the 4th day of March. I do not myself entertain any apprehensions on the subject."
King to Seward, Rome, 4 March 1865
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
....The correspondence between the Confederate President and Ven. Pope Pius IX was not voluminous, but illuminating. It began when Union agents set about trying to recruit mercenaries from such European Catholic lands as Poland and Ireland. President Davis wrote to Pius, appealing to him to exercise the powers of his office to frustrate the recruiting effort. At his end, Pius communicated to the relevant bishops his concern that the recruitment risked internationalizing the American conflict. Moreover, when he responded directly to Davis he took care to address him as: "His Excellency, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America."
Some historians have tried to contend otherwise, as if Vatican diplomacy, famous for its punctiliousness, suddenly went slipshod, but for Pius so to address Davis constituted recognition of the existence of the C.S.A. So would the pontiff's later agreement to receive a personal envoy, an ambassador, of President Davis.
Why did Pius, alone among European heads of state, extend recognition? On this score, there is no particular historical document to which the historian can refer, no memorandum ever retrieved from the archives of the Holy See or Confederate State Department that explains in black and white why he did....
...could the War Between the States have ended differently if Bishop Lynch had reached Rome and been received by Ven. Pope Pius IX earlier than a couple of months before Appomattox? It is conceivable that Vatican diplomacy, given time to do its work, could have moved other European powers to recognize the C.S.A., notably France in light of what was then going on in Mexico.
....
When Ven. Pope Pius IX agreed in 1865 to receive Bishop Lynch as envoy of the President of the C.S.A., the only condition stipulated for his reception was that slavery would not be a subject for discussion. There is no evidence that His Excellency wanted to try to discuss it or that President Davis instructed him to do so. http://www.catholicism.org/catholicism-south.html
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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