Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
So what is the goal here? To show that Chinese immigrants weren't slaves? That Chinese immigrants suffered hardship and injustice, yet their status and possibilities were greater than that of African American slaves? This will somehow increase our understanding of the Civil War?
Gentlemen:
What say we encourage Battalion to make his point with the coolie business? It looks to me like a different nangle to the approach that it was northern ships that brought all them slaves here; and it was northern ships that continued to sneak them in after 1808. Therefore the north shares in the promotion of slavery and the south looks better. (It doesn't change the identities of the buyers.)
As an aside, I'd urge us all to remember that it isn't a north/south thing; it's a slave-buyer/slave-supplier thing. That it was allowed to happen is the national sin (thank you, Johan). Chucking blame around changes no facts. And chucking facts hither and yon doesn't change history.
Now, I'd like to learn a bit more about the enslavement of the coolies.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Just something I would like to pass along when it comes to presenting evidence on this thread, something I picked up from another board.
Certainty is not proof.
Insistence is not fact.
Opinion is not evidence.
Words to debate by.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Provide us with evidence that coolies were bought and sold in the US with or without the knowlegde of the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt mc
So what is the goal here? To show that Chinese immigrants weren't slaves? That Chinese immigrants suffered hardship and injustice, yet their status and possibilities were greater than that of African American slaves?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
Now, I'd like to learn a bit more about the enslavement of the coolies.
Coolies came from all over Asia. They were imported by several nationalities including ships from the United States.
Some were voluntary...some were not (see 1862 law- "sold") and the passage across the Pacific for the coolie was just as bad as the trip across the Atlantic for the African slave.
They were brought to countries in both continents of the New World- to the west coast of the United States, to work in the cane fields of Cuba, the guano pits of Peru...wherever cheap labor was needed.
The destination of an American ship with a load of coolies was not just the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt mc
This will somehow increase our understanding of the Civil War?
Yes.
Why does the government that is supposedly against slavery (the "slave-power")...allow its citizens to engage in a legal slave trade?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
There should be a question mark at the end of the title. Because from the snippet it seems the no citizen of the US or foreigner coming into or residing within the US shall build, equip, load, or otherwise prepare any ship or vessel for the purpose of procuring from China, OR FROM ANY OTHER PORT OR PLACE the INHABITANTS OR subjects of China, known as 'coolies' to be transported to ANY foreign couuntry, port Or place, WHATEVER, to be disposed of, or sold, or transferred For ANY term of years or for Any time WHATEVER, as servants or apprentices, or to be held to Service or Labor
Is not the 1869 Act prohibiting the coolie trade by American citizens in American vessels' just extending the 1806 law to include, Not Only 'coolies' but also the inhabitants or subjects of Japan, or of Any Otheir Oriental Country, Known as "Coolies", in the same mannner and to the same extent as such act and its provisions apply to the inhabitants and subjects of China?
Like all lucrative, ILLEGAL activities, it takes steady application of appropriate laws and enforcement, over some time to achieve the desired results. Thos laws above were appropriate and moving in the right direction.
Withe the eradication of the CSA, and subsequent expainsion of what Freedom in America now meant. America was turning its attention to others deserving freedom, by the fact that they were human beings. In the end it did not take nearly as long to eradicate the coolie trade as it did the slave trade in the south.
Withe the eradication of the CSA, and subsequent expainsion of what Freedom in America now meant.
The CSA or the "eradication" of the CSA has nothing to do with the coolie trade.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
There is no link between eliminating in the south and legislation to end "coolie" trade?
Why would there be any link?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Thanks to Chief Justice Taney, slavery was legal in every state in the Union, including California. Fortunately, the CW scotched that idea. AND If there were recalcitrant southerners or their ilk in Calif. who might think that the war against slavery in the south did not apply to oriental slaves, the US had an answer for them too.
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