Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
No one said that he was. He seems to have a lot of the facts right, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
"And yet it needed but a few years to show that South Carolina had merely been the first to put into words the inarticulate thought of a large minority, if not a majority, of the inhabitants of the Gulf States."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Nonsense.
Easy to say "Nonsense". I myself have no particular reason for believing it was a "majority". However, it was loudly and publicly discussed in those states for several years, and a number of Fire-Eater public figures associated themselves with the idea, so it would seem there was at least a substantial "minority" who felt this way. Isn't that correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
"In 1856, in the convention at Savannah, W.B. Goulden of Georgia moved that the members of Congress be requested to bestir themselves energetically to have repealed all laws which forbade the slave-trade."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
From the year that the slave trade was abolished (1808) to the secession of the South (1860-61)...how many Southern congressmen proposed in Congress the re-opening of the slave trade?-
0 (Zero)
How many congressmen proposed the re-opening of the slave trade in the Confederate Congress?-
0 (Zero)
What is the point of your digression? Du Bois says they were making these proposals in regional meetings and conventions in the South. They did, as you probably already know for sure. Are you saying they did not? If so, why?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
I just thought I'd bring this thread forward again, so that people would have easy access to it when wondering about your "Illegal Slave Importation Into The United States, 1808-1860" poll.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
81. Commercial Conventions of 1855–56. The growth of the movement is best followed in the action of the Southern Commercial Convention, an annual gathering which seems to have been fairly representative of a considerable part of Southern opinion.
Regards,
Tim
A disgusting fraud.....
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
As usual, a comment by you that does not explain what you mean while attempting to sound as if you have a point. Please stop such useless posts.
The annual Southern Commercial Conventions in the South before the Civil War became the bigggest (virtually the only) gathering of political leaders from across the Southern states. Famous men met and debated the issues of the day at them. Speeches made there were covered in the newspapers throughout the states, widely disseminated and discussed. It was in these conventions that many of the leaders of the Fire-Eater movement got their greatest public exposure and promoted their ideas. Yet you describe it as "A disgusting fraud....." Balderdash. Give us a clear explanation of what you mean for a change -- or is it you that is trying to put a fraud over here?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
"...In my next letter I shall give a brief account of a visit to some of the planters, as far as it can be made consistent with the obligations which the rites and rights of hospitality impose upon the guest as well upon the dust. These gentlemen are well bred, courteous, and hospitable. A genuine aristocracy, they have time to cultivate their mince, to apply themselves to politics and the guidance of public affairs. They travel and read, love d sports, racing, shooting, hunting, and fishing, are bold horsemen and good shots, But tal their State is a modern Sparta--an aristocracy resting on a ltry, and with nothing else to rest upon. Although they profess (and I believe, indeed, sincerely) to hold opinions in oppression to the opening of the slave trade, it is nevertheless true that the clause in the Constitution of the Confederate States which prompted the importation of negroes, was especially and energetically resisted by them, because, as they say, it seemed to be an admission that slavery was in itself an evil and a wrong..."
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
DeBow makes an interesting point, that the restrictions of the Constitution, had the effect of unbalancing the slave economy of the South i.e. making the price of slaves too high for the system to become common among the general population.
Although DeBow does not say so, the implication is that, because of this effect, a slave owning oligarchy would grow up to control the politics of the slave owning areas And that, logically, this oligarchy would defend the economic system that gave them life to begin with; cheap land tilled by expensive slave labor.
It seems that whatever the original intent (and I am not ruling out the idea that this was the intent of 'some' of the Founding Fathers) of the Constitutional restrictions on the importation of slaves, it did, in fact, plant a deadly economic virus that would lead to the death of slavery in the USA.
Slavery was always an issue from America's founding. Jefferson had originally added a ban on slavery in the DOI, but the Congressmen from the South made sure it was voted down. Of the original 55 delegates sent to the Constitutional Convention in 1787 only 42 remained to sign the document. Some left over the provision to allow the banning the importation of slaves after 20 years. They saw this as a prelude to the ending of slavery. Many of the delegates indeed wanted to end slavery, but they were well aware the Southern delegates would walk out and any Constitution that banned slavery would not be ratified by 9 states. By 1804 slavery ended in the North except for several counties in NJ. Both sides would keep the issue of slavery alive in legislation and in the public debate.
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
It seems that whatever the original intent (and I am not ruling out the idea that this was the intent of 'some' of the Founding Fathers) of the Constitutional restrictions on the importation of slaves, it did, in fact, plant a deadly economic virus that would lead to the death of slavery in the USA.
I don't recall seeing any "Constitutional restrictions on the importation of slaves;" only that the Congress could not put a restriction on the importation until 1808 -- which it did. The existence of this restriction of a restriction makes it quite clear that most of the Founding Fathers and all of the ratifying states intended that importation would be restricted if not halted.
Good thread.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The Constitution accepts a moratorium on the powee of the national gov't to restrict the importation of slaves until 1808, at which time it could, if it wanted (it did), exercise it's Constitutional Power to do so.
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