Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
January 1861 -- The South Secedes. Calling a state convention, the delegates voted to remove the state of South Carolina from the union known as the United States of America. The Secession of South Carolina was followed by the secession of six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- and the threat of Secession by four more -- Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina. These eleven states eventually formed the Confederate States of America. January 9 - Mississippi seceded from the Union. January 10 -Florida seceded from the Union. January 11 Alabama seceded from the Union. January 19 Georgia seceded from the Union. January 26 Louisiana seceded from the Union. February 1 Texas seceded from the Union. February 1861-- The South Creates a Government.
At a convention in Montgomery, Alabama, the seven seceding states created the Confederate Constitution.
After Fort Sumter is attacked on April 12, 1861 Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina secede.
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
January 1861 -- The South Secedes. Calling a state convention, the delegates voted to remove the state of South Carolina from the union known as the United States of America. The Secession of South Carolina was followed by the secession of six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- and the threat of Secession by four more -- Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina. These eleven states eventually formed the Confederate States of America. January 9 - Mississippi seceded from the Union. January 10 -Florida seceded from the Union. January 11 Alabama seceded from the Union. January 19 Georgia seceded from the Union. January 26 Louisiana seceded from the Union. February 1 Texas seceded from the Union. February 1861-- The South Creates a Government.
At a convention in Montgomery, Alabama, the seven seceding states created the Confederate Constitution.
After Fort Sumter is attacked on April 12, 1861 Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina secede.
Yes, a Northern dominated Congress was ready to insure property in slaves (by Constitutional amendment no less) right up to the eve of the Civil War.
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__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
The amendment gave the south what it already had, slavery in the states, it did not give southern leaders what they wanted, slavery in the territories..
Yes, a Northern dominated Congress was ready to insure property in slaves (by Constitutional amendment no less) right up to the eve of the Civil War.
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So?
Anyone with any knowledge of the history of this time period knows the Corwin Amendment did nothing but codify the predominant interpretation of the Constitution's meaning regarding slavery.
It said nothing about the expansion of slavery, though, and it said nothing about abolitionists speaking out against slavery, and it said nothing about Northern personal liberty laws.
Since you're repeating red herrings now, does this mean you've run out of them?
did not have the votes to ban slavery. Under the Constitutional amendment procedure, specified for the U.S. Congress, as long as there were 15 states who wanted slavery, the U.S. Congress had no ability to ban slavery in the U.S.
Presupposing there was no Civil War and all states subsequently admitted to the U.S. were free states, it would have been 1907, 30 free states and 15 slave states, where any amendment could even be first considered.
If Maryland had banned slavery, leaving 14 slave states, it would have been as late as 1890, when the Congress had over a 2/3rds vote to consider the banning of slavery nationally.
As long as there was slavery in just over 1/4th of the U.S. states, the slave states, then existing, could block any slave banning amendment. This changed tragically for the Southern states, when they pulled out of the U.S. Congress and seceded. Their negative votes didn't count any more. That was the tragic result of the South not having a seat at the Congressional table. The 13th Amendment was passed without their objection.
The 14th Amendment made the freedom of the slave costly to the former slaveowners. "...But the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void. "
The Slave Oligarchy not only lost its slaves because of secession, they were never going to receive compensation for those free slaves. The same for their Confederate money and Confederate bonds.
Secession did have a Constitutional steep price to pay. Of course, many a historian ignores this part of the U.S. Constitution which the Confederate states never got a moment to object.
In the end it wasn't an outright ban the southern states feared in 1860. It was the loss of numerical power in the Congress in 1860, the loss of control over voting on normal laws, and the possible banning of slavery in the territories, by the Republican controlled Congress.
While Lincoln and the Congress could not ban slavery outright in the states, the Congress had the right to ban slavery in the territories of the United States.
Article IV
..."The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States;"
Congress had power, without restriction, when it came to the territories. And Lincoln was prepared to restrict slavery in those territories.
Restricting slavery from the territories would have reduced the worth of slaves, and any excess slaves sold by a slave owner, would need to be sold in the slave states. This restriction would tend to decrease the value of slaves. It was something the slave oligarchy could never support.
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Congress had power, without restriction, when it came to the territories. And Lincoln was prepared to restrict slavery in those territories.
Restricting slavery from the territories would have reduced the worth of slaves, and any excess slaves sold by a slave owner, would need to be sold in the slave states. This restriction would tend to decrease the value of slaves. It was something the slave oligarchy could never support.
A few notes:
1) DE, which had a 75 year history of trying to limit and/or end slavery, was the next most-likely-to-emancipate state. Not MD, which might have been 2nd. MO was likely 3rd.
2) The Dred Scott decision tosses out the right of the US government to make the type of laws you are describing in the Territories, and invalidates those already passed. I think that the Chief Justice's opinion and the majority decision are wrong, no matter how brilliant they may have been -- but they had votes and I am a spectator. Outrage over this decision played a large part in the growth of the Republican Party in 1858-1860, and the election of Lincoln to the Presidency in 1860.
Yes, a Northern dominated Congress was ready to insure property in slaves (by Constitutional amendment no less) right up to the eve of the Civil War.
And why not? Constitutionally, the right of ownership was guaranteed. Only the radical abolitionists quarreled with that clause and, politically, they were only loud -- they didn't have the votes.
It might surprise one that most northerners as well as most southerners believed strongly in the Constitution. There was never a serious movement to eliminate slavery -- unless you consider confining it to where it was an attempt to eliminate it.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
2) The Dred Scott decision tosses out the right of the US government to make the type of laws you are describing in the Territories, and invalidates those already passed.
Had their been no war, the Lincoln administration would most certainly have worked on overturning that decision.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I don't think the South really wanted secession. They wanted fair treatment from the Gov.
If slavery had been fazed out with some recompence than the ACW might never have happened.
I've read articles in the journal of Civil War History and in the Congressional Civil War Desk reference that the North, during reconstruction, paid Southern Unionists as much as $10,000 for damages and property lost during the ACW.
Southern Unionists were also granted property during Reconstruction, although there was no organized way of getting it.
What amount would that be in today's dollars?
Texas2nd
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