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Civil War History - Secession and Politics Was it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.

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  #41  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw1865
Lyon possesses no authority to conscript the private militia companies, but they can go along with him. The only party with any standing to challenge Lyon's actions would be the actual members of the militia units that were 'Federalized' - the fact that they are being used against legitimate state militia units is irrelevant, they can be used against any force triggering the Insurrection Act.
Thats the rub. Of the State Guard encamped at Lindell Grove maybe a quarter were actually in the Jackson/Price/Frost in favor of secession camp. The rest of the companies (the majority) were neutral or Unionist leaning.

Which explains why no moves were made on the arsenal. Jackson, Price and Frost were unable to muster a sufficent quanity of Guardsmen to attack. And they were waiting for the arms from Baton Rouge and Seccessionist Guard support from other parts of the state.

Lyons "capture" of the State Guard (many loyal) at Lindells Grove drove a great many of the loyal companies into the secessionist fold not because of a belief in secession but they felt that they were attacked by an officer who lacked that authority.

Lyon created alot of non-secessionist enemies for the Union forces during his tenure.
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  #42  
Old 09-07-2008, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
Found report of another massacre in St. Louis 17 June 1861.
"At a quarter past ten o'clock this morning a detachment of United States volunteers, or Home Guards, a part of McNeil's regiment, under command, as is alleged, of one Bissell or Bissick, proceeded from their quarters at Turner's Hall, down Seventh.

When immediately opposite the Recorder's Court room, in the building occupied by the Hook and Ladder Company, on Seventh street, between Pine and Olive streets, several bystanders, who had left the Recorder's Court rather hastily, to see the soldiers, rushed out on the sidewalk. Just at the juncture a soldier's gun, in the extreme rear of the ranks, apparently while the holder was adjusting a cap, exploded accidentally. Immediately upon this, and it is said without any order being given, the troops commenced a murderous and promiscuous fire upon the crowd of unprotected citizens who stood before them.

The number of those killed, or their names, cannot be correctly ascertained today. The slaughtered fell in every direction. The wail of the dying rang in the ears of a startled people for blocks around. Shriek after shriek went up to heaven: the rush for places of safety stifled dozens, and still the soldiers fired. The scene cannot be described, nay hardly imagined. Upon the balcony in front of the Recorder's Court room Henry Fraugel fell. Close by his side, officer N.M. Pratt, who has for several years been connected with the police force, fell, pierced through the heart.

The Recorder, sitting quietly at his desk, entirely unconscious of the possibility of trouble in the street, was suddenly surrounded by a storm of bullets. The window immediately behind him was completely riddled by bullets. His desk was shattered and rent by the flying lead, still providentially his life was spared. A prisoner, up for some petty offense, fell dead at the dock. The other prisoners, taking advantage of the confusion, fled from the building and escaped.

When there was no longer anybody to shoot the rattle of the musketry ceased, and there lay the dead, the dying and the wounded to be gazed at by the thousands of horror stricken citizens that soon congregated around the spot where the massacre occured. In a few minutes a body of police arrived on the ground, and in a short time afterward a company of regulars, under command of Capt. Sweeny.

The street for some distance around the engine house was cleared, and the bodies of the killed and wounded removed. As near as we could ascertain seven were killed instantly, and a large number of others badly wounded, several of whom we are informed by physicians in attendance will probably die during the day. We saw two bodies, stiff in death, which were literally torn to pieces by Minie balls. An Italian, named Bougero, the proprietor of a saloon on the corner of Seventh and St. Charles streets, received two balls in the head, one of which tore off his lower jaw. We are unable to state positively any more of the names of the killed and wounded.

Many were taken to their homes by friends, and their names will probably not transpire for several days, or at least not until an inquest is held by the Coroner. When we left the scene of the massacre, the firemen were engaged with their hose in washing away the pools of blood that made the sidewalk look like the floor of a slaughter-house. As we have heretofore intimated, the wildest excitement prevailed. The people of the immediate neighborhood of the butchery are nearly speechless with terror. Many of them are preparing to leave the city as it is evident from every circumstance that the lives of none are safe in the city.

Several of the wounded are now lying at the City Hospital, and five of the dead bodies can be seen at the Health Office. We shall be prepared to give more of the details concerning this last terrible massacre of our citizens tomorrow. In the meantime, we trust those who witnessed the affair will hand their names in to the Coroner. We have to add that in this instance not one man can be found who has attempted or will attempt to palliate or excuse in the slightest degree, the butchery of our citizens this morning."
St Louis Journal, 17 June 1861
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POWER & MONEY

"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861
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  #43  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
"At a quarter past ten o'clock this morning a detachment of United States volunteers, or Home Guards, a part of McNeil's regiment, under command, as is alleged, of one Bissell or Bissick, proceeded from their quarters at Turner's Hall, down Seventh.
...
St Louis Journal, 17 June 1861
My guess is that you are looking at a reference to this article published in the New Orleans Bee. The article you are showing us is a description of a tense situation (this is the day of the first battle of Booneville in Missouri) where a shot suddenly rings out and raw, inexperienced troops react excitedly. Have you seen any follow up to this early description?

For example, have you seen this:
=====

The Daily True Delta --7/6/1861
The Last St. Louis Massacre--Verdict of the Coroner's Jury

The coroner's jury in the case of the massacre at St. Louis of the 17th inst., in which inoffensive citizens were shot down in cold blood by federal troops, returned the following verdict:

The persons killed came by their death by gunshot wounds inflicted on Seventh street, between Pine and Olive, by minie balls discharged by certain members of companies of C, E, F, B, and I of the Second Regiment of U. S. Reserve troops, which was marching down Seventh street of the 17th inst.,

The jury further expresses it, as their opinion, that these wounds were inflicted without any provocation or discharge of any firearms from the citizens then present, and also, without any order of fire having been given by the officers in command of said U. S. Reserves.
=====

Undoubtedly a tragedy. Undoubtedly a mistake. No evidence at all that it was deliberate or intentional according to the jury.

Tim
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"Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
"At a quarter past ten o'clock this morning a detachment of United States volunteers, or Home Guards, a part of McNeil's regiment, under command, as is alleged, of one Bissell or Bissick, proceeded from their quarters at Turner's Hall, down Seventh.
...
St Louis Journal, 17 June 1861
Battalion,

BTW, do you know if "St. Louis Journal" is the actual name of the original paper this was published in? Or was it perhaps the Missouri State Journal which was published in St. Louis, or the St. Louis Journal of Commerce, or some other similar sounding name?

Tim
__________________
"Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
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