Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Well, you see that the South's firing at Fort Sumpter was the declaration of war while I see that the invasion of the federal warship was a violation and a act of war.
Since we differ on that issue, there is no need nor should we argue against each other about that because that produces quarrels. I don't want to quarrel with anyone on differences in opinions about this great war subject.
Are you serious? The US cannot invade its own territory, whether that be a US state, US territory, or US waters. Firing on a US government ship, fort, or troops by its citizens is an act of rebellion. The Civil War settled this. There is no right of secession for states. States are free to rebell from the US. However, the US is authorized to put down rebellions.
From the Constitution:
Article I: The Legislative Branch: Section 8: Powers of Congress,
Clause 15,
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
Anyone interested in pulling up something from the Constitution that states anything to the effect of permiting exit or the Union being temporary, please do so.
Failing that being shown to actually exist in the Constitution...my computer is set to translate all posts claiming it does as "War is peace. Black is white. Up is down."
With all due respect, there are things that are upheld by the law and there are things shot down by the law. If yours is one of the latter, don't waste your time or anyone else's claiming it isn't.
Thank you.
__________________ Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - Robert E. Lee
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. - Abraham Lincoln
Are you serious? The US cannot invade its own territory, whether that be a US state, US territory, or US waters. Firing on a US government ship, fort, or troops by its citizens is an act of rebellion. The Civil War settled this. There is no right of secession for states. States are free to rebell from the US. However, the US is authorized to put down rebellions.
From the Constitution:
Article I: The Legislative Branch: Section 8: Powers of Congress,
Clause 15,
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions
So this would mean that the United Nations has the final say so and authority over the United States. The UN can allow to send ships of all kinds from all the countries that are in treaty with the UN to come and go as they please through the United States without our approval.
South Carolina saw that the federal warship was invading their coast to reenforce the fort without authorization to do so. They fired out of self-defense to protect their borders and coastlines. If the borders of your country is threatened, then your homes are threatened.
The United States never was a country. It's a form of government with the unity of the states. But the US government cannot or should not ever rise above the states' authorities.
The United States never was a country. It's a form of government with the unity of the states. But the US government cannot or should not ever rise above the states' authorities.
This is inaccurate. All of the states -- each and every one of them -- had agreed to make their authority and laws subordinate to the United States. Each and every one of their officials -- elected or appointed -- swore a personal oath to uphold that agreement: the Constitution of the United States.
It is also worth noting that the treaty that ends the American Revolution says that it is between two countries, and one of them is the United States of America.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
The United States never was a country. It's a form of government with the unity of the states. But the US government cannot or should not ever rise above the states' authorities.
Proof positive that to be pro-secession, you need to be anti-American.
For reasons lost in the mists of time and probably having to the fact "Statsean" doesn't sound right, residents of the United States of America are refered to as Americans. Similarly, "American" is often used to refer to the government (American government), ships, people, etc. as an adjective.
This is not news, surely?
That is the sense they were (and those who support them now are) anti-American.
They were perfectly happy with the federal government ramming a tough fugitive slave law down the throats of the free-staters, but God have mercy on any federal government who dares act in the other direction on the slavery question, for they don't intend to give any.
__________________ Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - Robert E. Lee
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. - Abraham Lincoln
Anti-american? What did the South form? The Confederate States of America. They were anti-federal control over the states, not anti-americans.
If they were opposed to Federal control of the states, why did they support the Fugitive Slave Act, arguably the biggest exercise of Federal authority over the states in the history of our nation? Why were so many southerners suggesting that the Dred Scott decision should apply to the states as well as the territories? When they formed their own government and drafted a constitution why didn't they increase the states' power in any meaningful way? Why did they take away the states' right to abolish slavery?
Why was the south so eager to abandon their states' rights philosophy when they thought it was the best way to perpetuate slavery?
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