Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I have also seen the figure of 900,000 used as the upper number for the total number of men under Confederate service, but no matter.
So, 450,000 Southerners who served the Union would equal what for those who served the Confederacy?
750,000 Southerners serving the CSA -450,000 Southerners serving the Union
300,000 or about a 1.6 to 1 ratio or more than half the men who served the South?
1,000,000 Southerners serving the CSA -450,000 Southerners serving the Union
550,000 or about 2 to 1 ratio or about half the men who serve the South?
You may want to check my math and I would appreciate any corrections if wrong.
Imagine if Lee could have had those 450,000 men added to the ranks of his army alone. Of if Jeff Davis could have gotten this extra number of men to serve in the CSA ranks. It staggers the imagination.
What it boils down to, is that a very significant number who could have added to Confederate strength, chose not to do so. In fact, this number was so great that it came down to about equaling half of the total Confederate strength for the war.
I am pretty sure this is what Johan was talking about. If, as Dr. Freehling has pointed out, these Southern men had thrown their lot with the Confederacy, they could have replaced nearly all of Lee's losses in the Army of Northern Virginia and added to its number.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Battalion, here is my original post in context. I was replying to Wild Rose.
"Rose it is not that it is popular, it is fact. The South was in no way united... there was too much pro union feeling for that. Heck almost as many Southerners served in the US Army as the CS... (psst Battalion 3 dots ... means there is more) then there were the staunchly anti-CS enclaves throughout consisting of draft evaders, deserters, runaways, pro union partisans etc.
That said there was considearable sympathy w/ the CS in the North as well... though little so enthusiastic as to become armed camps. While it may be convenient to say that the dividing line was the Mason Dixon... that just is not correct. "
Battalion, your reasoning convienently ignores southern black men who served in the Union Army (why pray tell?) and white men who... weren't Southern enough? As Neil has so elequontly put enough Southerners served in the Union Army to replace the losses of the War for the Union armies. The idea that W VA, MD, KY & MO weren't Southern in their ideals is pretty thin. Oh and please define Southern.
If the South was so united where did 450,000 southern fighting men in the US Army come from? This does not include the draft evaders, Anti CS men & regions in the CS beyond control of the CS govt. Yes I said REGIONS, whole sections where the CS govt held no sway; conscription officers took their lives in their own hands by entering those locales. East TN, North GA... Western VA seceeded from VA because they saw Secession as treason and weren't going to be dragged into the CS by the Eastern half of the state. THere were enclaves of anti-CS/pro Union sentiment in ever state of the CS; some considerably larger than others.
Hence the idea of two distinct views from the region: A Southern vs Confederate point of view put forward as the idea of this thread.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Being Southern is a very personal thing. I'm Southern because I was born in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. The magnetism and majesty of that place will remain forever in my being. My Civil war ancestors were all Southern. They were also all different individuals with different thoughts and circumstances. One fought valiantly for both sides, serving the Confederacy for two years before joining the US Army. One was a US Army officer who chose his path because folks in upper East Tennessee remained loyal to the nation they had helped build. Another from North Carolina decided that the Union was worth perserving, so he joined the US Army, even though his brother and most of his cousins and neighbors were sympathetic to the Confederacy or at least their homeland of North Carolina. Another Virginia ancestor chose to help defend his native state. He instead wound up spending a very brutal winter in 1864 in Middle Tennessee with Gen. Hood after being shelled by Sherman in Atlanta. This was a complicated time to say the least. Southern is a feeling deep inside. A yankee just wouldn't understand.
Last edited by larry_cockerham; 10-03-2006 at 08:55 AM.
I have also seen the figure of 900,000 used as the upper number for the total number of men under Confederate service, but no matter.
So, 450,000 Southerners who served the Union would equal what for those who served the Confederacy?
750,000 Southerners serving the CSA -450,000 Southerners serving the Union
300,000 or about a 1.6 to 1 ratio or more than half the men who served the South?
1,000,000 Southerners serving the CSA -450,000 Southerners serving the Union
550,000 or about 2 to 1 ratio or about half the men who serve the South?
You may want to check my math and I would appreciate any corrections if wrong.
Imagine if Lee could have had those 450,000 men added to the ranks of his army alone. Of if Jeff Davis could have gotten this extra number of men to serve in the CSA ranks. It staggers the imagination.
What it boils down to, is that a very significant number who could have added to Confederate strength, chose not to do so. In fact, this number was so great that it came down to about equaling half of the total Confederate strength for the war.
I am pretty sure this is what Johan was talking about. If, as Dr. Freehling has pointed out, these Southern men had thrown their lot with the Confederacy, they could have replaced nearly all of Lee's losses in the Army of Northern Virginia and added to its number.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
You are assuming that all of these 450,000 are Southern.
I repeat an earlier post:
"A few notes on the 1860 population of Missouri-
Almost 20% of the white males were foreign born
The population increased from 383,000 in 1840 to 1,182,000 in 1860. The influx could have come from several states...North as well as South"
The same could be said for Kentucky...though with less foreign born.
~
You also need to consider that the Federals controlled those areas and would use the conscription method when short on volunteers.
Battalion, your reasoning convienently ignores southern black men who served in the Union Army (why pray tell?) and white men who... weren't Southern enough? As Neil has so elequontly put enough Southerners served in the Union Army to replace the losses of the War for the Union armies. The idea that W VA, MD, KY & MO weren't Southern in their ideals is pretty thin. Oh and please define Southern.
Oh, trying to play a race-card huh?
Please see post #29 of this thread-
"From the Original Seven Confederate States
White troops.......11,600 (Over 4 yrs. the equivalent of ONE brigade)
Black troops........56,929
Eleven Confederate States (Running Total-)
White.................54,137
Black..................98,398 (includes 5,052 at-large from seceded states)
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