Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
You can run, Pinckney, but you can't hide. WE will find you and stuff this crap down your protesting throat.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I do so love getting everybody confused. And I have obsessive-compulsive tendencies.
ole, your great-grandfather and your best beloved's mother, your grandfather and your best beloved--these two groups are different firsts.
Your great-grandfather, your best beloved's mother: first-generation immigrants.
Your grandfather, your best beloved: first generation born in America, second-generation immigrants.
In the case of your best beloved's father, I believe only the country of birth counts when determining immigrant status.
Which generation of immigrants you belong to, while it doesn't determine, greatly influences where you consider your home to be. This is the answer to your question, larry_cockerham: Generations after the first immigrant are progressively less influenced by their culture of origin and more by their country of residence. It's a matter of where your loyalty lies. So, for example, my parents still see themselves as being affiliated with China. I vacillate because of my anomalous 1.5-generation status, and my friends who were born here think of the U.S. first and foremost. Many can't, in fact, speak or read or write Chinese at all. On a bureaucratic note, there's the naturalization process and whether you have the privileges of being an American citizen.
Blah blah fishcakes. You guys are right. Let's move on!
matthew mckeon, I enjoyed the Ken Burns series, too. That's why I watch it every chance I get. The only reason I haven't already bought the DVDs is I'm dirt poor. Thank god for PBS.
I'll go along with the Tequila, but I can't abide a beer that needs a slice of lime for it to have any flavor. I'll take a Dos Equis or Carta Blanca.
Ken Burns does fine work.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Yeade wrote: "Which generation of immigrants you belong to, while it doesn't determine, greatly influences where you consider your home to be. This is the answer to your question, larry_cockerham: Generations after the first immigrant are progressively less influenced by their culture of origin and more by their country of residence. It's a matter of where your loyalty lies. So, for example, my parents still see themselves as being affiliated with China. I vacillate because of my anomalous 1.5-generation status, and my friends who were born here think of the U.S. first and foremost. Many can't, in fact, speak or read or write Chinese at all. On a bureaucratic note, there's the naturalization process and whether you have the privileges of being an American citizen."
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Yeade wrote: "Which generation of immigrants you belong to, while it doesn't determine, greatly influences where you consider your home to be. This is the answer to your question, larry_cockerham: Generations after the first immigrant are progressively less influenced by their culture of origin and more by their country of residence. It's a matter of where your loyalty lies. So, for example, my parents still see themselves as being affiliated with China. I vacillate because of my anomalous 1.5-generation status, and my friends who were born here think of the U.S. first and foremost. Many can't, in fact, speak or read or write Chinese at all. On a bureaucratic note, there's the naturalization process and whether you have the privileges of being an American citizen."
That's one of the better viewpoints on this psychology I've ever seen, though admittedly I haven't looked too deeply. My folks have been in the US so long I've reached the point that I suspect your description is quite apt. While I consciously know I should have a warm spot in my heart for Scotland, England, Germany, France, Italy etc., it just ain't there as such. Maybe I need to take a trip.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Thanks, larry_cockerham. I've, well, clearly given the issue a great deal of thought, and it's always nice to know I'm not off my rocker.
I didn't visit China until I was almost twenty, and I felt I didn't really fit in there. It was nice enough to go and see my relatives, but the trip had the air of a vacation; in the end, I thought of my home as being here, in America. I have five or so cousins who are about the same age as I am. When talking to them, I found that they and I don't think the same way. I appreciate different things, approach problems from a different direction than they do, and generally structure my thoughts differently. This is in part, I'm sure, natural variation between individuals. However, I believe it also owes something to the... almost insidious way the culture of your country of residence seeps into you and changes your worldview.
Later generations born in the U.S. conform to the society in which they live, then, and eventually come to view any ventures outside of this society as somewhat mentally and emotionally uncomfortable. This dissonance with the culture of origin leads you to feel more American, IMO.
In addition, there's the fact that those born here would never have known anything else. All your memories are rooted to this place, and it's difficult to miss or care deeply for something you have no experience of.
There are a few qualifications, I think. The U.S. has a perhaps abnormally large population of immigrants. With sufficient numbers, immigrants gravitate to ethnic centers, where they can recreate the setting of their native countries. These folks are never as out of touch with their original cultures as others who aren't in such an ethnic community. Also, Americans tend to take pride in their ability to think freely. The resources to support this are usually available, too. So, if you think of yourself as, say, French, few are going to gainsay you and, with a bit of effort, you can learn the language, find out how the French do things, and go to France. One of my former roommates, for example, strongly identifies with Chileans despite her family being of European origin and American for generations. She might very well move to Chile, get citizenship there, and fit in with native Chileans in all but appearance.
Man, I've about talked myself out on the subject. What do you say we all get back to the Civil War?
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