Why did slave holders in the South comply with the Emancipation?

[Hanny]

[quote]
Originally Posted by Hanny
Er your just plain wrong, VA and Maryland exported all the slaves thats SC required, and your wrong that Rhett argued on those grounds you list for the reson why the slave trade should be reopened. [/quote[
[quote]
No, Hanny, I am correct. The supply of slaves for sale was inadequate (in the opinion of men like Rhett, Yancy, Pollard, etc.) and the demand was growing. This resulted in constant price increases, a fact well-known and often documented -- and also a major complaint of slaveholders in the Deep South, as you will see mentioned in various threads on this board. Rhett of Charleston and Pollard of Richmond discussed this is a series of letters in 1858-59.
The slave population of Maryland was in decline and had been in decline (as a percentage of population) in every single census the US took after 1790. They would not be supplying slaves in large numbers to the South in the future, or for very long:
Year .... Slaves .... Total Population .... Percentage
----------------------------------------------
1790.... 103,036 .... 319,728 .... 32.2%
1800.... 105,635 .... 341,543 .... 30.9%
1810.... 111,502 .... 380,546 .... 29.3%
1820.... 107,398 .... 407,350 .... 26.4%
1830.... 102,994 .... 447,040 .... 23.0%
1840.... 89,737 .... 470,019 .... 19.1%
1850.... 90,368 .... 583,034 .... 15.5%
1860.... 87,189 .... 687,049 .... 12.7%
The high death rate of slaves on plantations near the swamps was one factor in increasing the demand for new slaves. The expansion to meet the demand for cotton was another. VA and MD were generally against re-opening the slave trade in the 1840s/1850s because they were making a big profit selling slaves to SC-GA-AL-MS-LA-TX-AR where the demand was high, and they had a virtual monopoly on excess supply to sell. SC-GA-AL-MS-LA-TX-AR had quite a few people who wanted to re-open the slave trade to increase the supply and bring prices down.
The Fire Eaters saw a danger in this politically as well. One of the things Rhett and Pollard are discussing is the need to increase the supply to create more slaveholders by bringing prices down. Otherwise, they felt, a class divide might arise betwen rich and poor whites, similar to the situation they saw in the North, that they thought might tend to bring an end to slavery.
Regards,
Tim
[quote]

What i ment was that every slave had to come from inter state importation, and that SC absolute and % number of slaves grew through inter state importation, now while supply and demand may not have been the root cause of those wanting the slave trade re opened, that would be a federal matter and thus had noi real prospect of occuring, while the number of slaves themselves was increasing in a population boom that made importation less atractive as remedy.

SC had a statute that slaves had to leave the state upon manumision, this also increased population movement out of state.

[johan_steele]

Originally Posted by Hanny

Your impresion has nothing to do with the slaves expressed opinion now does it?, unless your only intrested in your opinion on slavery that is, as oposed to those who actually lived under it.

Actually my impression of slavery has been garnered from reading, research, talking to descendents of those who actually lived under it. Ever been to Kingstree or Eastover SC? How aboput the site of Cobb's Plantation in Georgia? You know, actual on the ground research. The conclusion I have reached: no way in hell I would want such a life for my children, wife or anyone I know; not even my worst enemy could deserve such a life. Slavery in North America was a stain upon the honor and decency of this nation. You apparently disagree. The CW was brought upon us US by wealthy slaveowners who felt their power slipping... My opinion, based upon research not the by gosh and by golly of the Lost Cause, and I have my right to it.



Federal census takers compiled it, the data is neutral, what you take it to mean is up to you. Most people today simply do not understand the condition of slavery. Do you think Federal Census takers were answered w/ 100% honesty or were some given merely what they wished to hear. Further do you believe federal census takers to be/have been 100% unbiased? Forgive me if I refuse to see slavery as all fuzzy bunnies and happy flippy institution you portray it as. Your version is pure Lost Cause propoganda. Yep, slaves were better off under the heel of the "old days"... when they knew their place. Again I challenge you to go to the bottoms of any SC town and preach that to the four winds.


Burning alive as a military puishment for the crime of arson remained as a stutue till the mid 1800, and if you pass through US or UK eduaction, you will be taught that family break up through sale of ofspring was LOWER for negros than it was for whites whose familys moved interstate, but why blet ugly fact ruin your pre conceptions of conditions. Hmmm passed through US education; don't recall ever hearing anywhere anything even vaguely resembling such... was a history major w/ a pretty high GPA. Might have missed it but kind of doubt it didn't know US history was a staple of UK secondary education.

Please feel free to go crazy w/ your scanner (I don't own one); though please don't play at Battalion's tactics of cherry picking things out of context...

Lovely?, i did not say or imply that is was. Really, well that is certainly the impression you left me w/ 6 odd mos ago. A staunch defender of slavery as not all that bad arguing that any who thought otherwise were ignorant. That is the impression you left me w/.

I refered to the Federal law that required every negro to be conscipted into federal military service who was not in full time employment, and Davis as a source is nothing to be shy off, he was not ignorant of the causes and conditions. Davis was a back room dealing, conniving politician of the highest order and his word... questionable. And whose grasp on reality was often... creative at best. But IMO he was one of the finest politicians of his day. As to the assertion that every black man in service after 63 was a conscript... I don't even know where to start on that cart load of fertilizer.

Well another year in Iraq makes 22, pesky reservist compulsary service, but that aside, i was referiing to the 1800 practice of life service as a member of the military, in which the punishments were as bad as those for slavery if not worse, in fact, i know you dont like facts ruining your misconception of the condition of slavery, but you had a higher chance of being whipped in the UK Army than did a slave, and an even higher one if in the RN, lived a shorter life expetency, ate a worse diet, lived in a smaller spacial dwelling.

Funny, I failed to grasp your clarification that you were referring to 19th century military practices. Wonderful, 22 years in the UK Army, congratulations. You are still implying an equivelance of military service to slavery. I will tell you the same thing I have told others... I don't buy it. Perhaps it is my own experiance, perhaps it is my experiance w/ the VFW & American Legion, perhaps it is my friendship w/ other veterans... soldiers as the same as slavery; not from any veteran I've ever known; most were proud of their service and would not claim such.

Well i had to go fight in an ilegal war against my wishes, so i did not have a nice day at all, but i guess an object lesson of mil service defeating personal desire as being a form of slavery couold be lost on you. Illegal war... modern claptrap politics. Apparently such a concept is lost on me; and offensive. Should I mention that I have only heard such claptrap from the illustious Wannabe caste? I volunteered, served my enlistments and left proud of my service and continue to serve through the American Legion. Was it all perfect? No, but I would never equate it w/ slavery of any kind. Again I doubt it. But then again the Brit troops I met and caroused w/ were RAF maintainers & a batch of paras... apparently a different sort.

Defend it?, nope i attempted to explain it to you because you do not appear to researched it
yet nor had it taught to you at College/school. Ummm doubt that a wee bit. As I had to pay for the credits, take the class, do the papers and pass the class w/ at least a B to keep my scholorship. BTW my lowest grade was a C in Algebra and a C in "Ethics" (I clashed a touch w/ the prof over war protestors and Israel's right to exist) My own knowledge pales next to researchersa on par w/ Cash, Trice, Neil etc. All who have, IMO, blown your premise so far out of the water that it is barely worth revisiting.
Ok, cite where i posted i would be happy to be slave for me. To be ignorant is simply to be unaware, so kindly dont take it as offensive when i ask you to cite the post in which i say as you claim, as im ignorant of doing so.

"I have no problem with being a slave, every one is to one degree or another, its the degree of choice and reward thats defines the condition as being benign or, as in the case of a cane cutter in LA, a living hell." post 196 of this thread

Please do not insist on painting all veterans under your soldiers as slaves umbrella; I find it purposefully offensive. I also recognize it as a gleeful tactic of those who, typically, take great joy in spitting upon soldiers. Forgive me if I find such a tactic offensive. It is merely my experiance speaking. You have the right to say whatever you wish.

As it is I have replied, I think, to your points... if I missed some my apologies... 0700-0400 shift has left me a bit tired. In the last year or so I have had the dubious pleasure of dealing w/ no less than four military impersonator/wannabes. One claimed to be a former Green Beret, another a Ranger, a Marine etc. All had a similar anti war/anti-US vhein and agenda, soldiers as slaves, US evil rest of the world good etc... and attitudes so at odds w/ the men & women who have served, that I have known or served beside, that I found it VERY hard to believe they had served honorably or at all. Of coarse discovering that the Ranger wannabe didn't know what jump wings were and the Green Beret pretender didn't know basic standard comm protocal merely cemented my knowledge that they were established members of the Wannabe or Iwishiwas tribe.

I've known some pretty bitter passed over NCO's who had lost any real appreciation or love for their govt. My father in law was a Master Sgt w/ 22 years in before he died. A black man who, though somewhat embittered by his service, was justifiably proud of it. Oh, he was the direct descendent of a slave; one of the last imported into the the (US circa 1860)... I listened and learned from men such as he, I listened to his mother who remembered fireside chats in her childhood w/ her grandma. Who knew first hand the "benevolance" of Jim Crow & the Klan. And then I married his daughter. I listened to people who could point to where their grandparents fled to hide from "benevolant" masters. I will not call them liars.

Forgive me if I refuse to be dragged down by someone whose service I call into question and whose opinion that slavery was anything less than grotesque. Such people do not add to my quest for knowledge. If I am wrong in my conclusions then I will offer my most heartfelt apologies for so badly misunderstanding your position.

Until that time... I bid you a good day.