Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Among the community of antislavery people, not all were opposed on a biblical basis. Some were; some were inclined more to feeling a bit guilty about that "all men are created equal" statement. Some were concerned with the effects slavery had on southern society, culture and industry. Some where opposed for many other reasons....
Ole
Slavery's morality
Well said Ole. Allow me to pick a nit here however re: Southern society, (see my bolds above). Was the comment you were responding to referencing Southern society or did you only wish to refer to (in your post) Southern slavery. The institution did have a bit broader geographic scope than that if I remember correctly. - Joe
Well said Ole. Allow me to pick a nit here however re: Southern society, (see my bolds above). Was the comment you were responding to referencing Southern society or did you only wish to refer to (in your post) Southern slavery. The institution did have a bit broader geographic scope than that if I remember correctly. - Joe
Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Keith. Southern society was influenced by conditions other than slavery; I was trying to limit the reference to the influence of slavery on it.
And the institution did have a broader geographic scope. You might agree, however, that the institution had far greater influence on Southern society than the few northern-owned slaves had on Northern society.
Hope I've explained that right.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
You might agree, however, that the institution had far greater influence on Southern society than the few northern-owned slaves had on Northern society.
Ole
Ole... during the period we discuss here, slavery had far greater influence and presence in the South than it did in the North, so of course, I agree. By this time the Northern states had grown beyond any real dependence on it. Just sensitive to (unintentional/intentional) glossing over the fact that at some point, we all dated that same ugly girl and benefited (very politically incorrect choice of word there wasn't it?) from the relationship. Thanks for the input. - Joe
Just sensitive to (unintentional/intentional) glossing over the fact that at some point, we all dated that same ugly girl and benefited (very politically incorrect choice of word there wasn't it?) from the relationship.
It is true that both parties dated that same ugly girl. Don't know what you mean by benefitted, but one of the parties most definitely married her.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The Bible is many things to many people. There in lies its strength and its weakness. Pick a topic, any topic, and you can usually find some passage or verse to support it.
I once read of a preacher who said the Bible said, "Look not upon the wine when it is red," so therefore it was alright to drink moonshine because it was clear, not red.
The Bible is one of personal meaning, and should be taken that way, what each individual person takes from it. It cannot be placed in one 'soul' view with the same meaning for everyone, hence all those denominations out there. To claim the Bible as support for one view simply does not take that into account.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
The Bible is many things to many people. There in lies its strength and its weakness. Pick a topic, any topic, and you can usually find some passage or verse to support it.
"Isn't this the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke?
Isn't it to distribute your bread to the hungry, and that you bring the poor who are cast out to your house? When you see the naked, that you cover him; and that you not hide yourself from your own flesh?
Then your light shall break forth as the morning, and your healing shall spring forth speedily; and your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of Yahweh shall be your rear guard."
Whatever.
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
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__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Samgrant,
Many poeple seem to have a hard time understanding how churchgoing Southerners were able to live and embrace slavery.This is just evidence to many of the backwardness of the antebellum South.Well first let's look at the times.In that era the Bible was very rarely subjected to individual interpretation.On the contrary , churchgoers typically interpreted the scripture literally word for word.I'd also like to point out that good churchgoing Northerners(and Southerners) of the day had no problem with supporting stealing the Native American lands and slaughtering men,women, and children.So obviously Christians neither North or South in the time period really shared in common with what society today considers the core Christian values.To get things started I'd like to point out a few Bible verses which supported slavery. Genesis 9:25-27 "Cursed be Canaan!The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers"He also said "Blessed be the Lord the God of Shem!May Canaan be the slave of Shem" this from Old Testament giant Noah.This was the biggest one because it was believed that Africans were the true blood descendants of Canaan and therefore slavery was God's role for them.Remember in the Old Testament not only was the person guilty of said act subject to God's punishment but so could his future descendants. Leviticus 25:46 "You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."Slavery was never outright condemned in the Bible.Also Southerners could point to Jesus himself who even though slavery was prevalent in his time never addressed the issue.Slaves were mentioned frequently in other parts of the Bible as well both Old and New Testaments.Never was it mentioned how unfortunate the slave was etch...Never was the master mentioned as evil.Sure God freed the Israelites from Egypt in the Old Testament so he must have been a abolitionist right?Not exactly,to punish the Israelites for their wickedness later on many were again made slaves by the Assyrians first and then the Babylonians.Shoot 10 of the 12 tribes of ancient Israelites were carried off and just dissapeared.References of throwing off the yoke in the OT refer to overthrowing a foreign power or wicked king not slavery.However, the Old Testament did clearly frown on Israelites keeping other Israelites as servants.Why is that important?Because Christians both North and South generally considered themselves as spiritual ancient Israelites and God's chosen poeple.Israelites were blasted repeatedly in the Old Testament for taking advantage of other Israelites.But you'll never find where they were blasted for mistreating other poeple. I've read of some Southerners who were generally disgusted after touring Northern factories.How crazy is that they can accept slavery along with its inhuman behavior ,but for whites to be treated like that horrified them.They considered that unChristian because to them whites were supposed to be treated better.If you're familiar with the Bible or very knowledgable about it you can probably see where the Southerners got their ideas from.They didn't have to twist the scripture to support their beliefs either.I also think the Old Testament stories of Israeli conquest and virtual genocide to rid the promise land of the heathens had a lot to do with Christians of the time being indifferent to the suffering of Indians.After all they were just repeating the same steps done by the Israelites who had God's blessing to do so.
__________________ "The sword is mighty, but principles laugh at swords. Overwhelming force may crush truth to earth but, crushed or not the truth is still the truth." Regards, Ashley
The bible definately is many things to many people. And people do interpret it different ways based on what they read, how they read it and what they do or don't read into it. Now, I won't say that I'm anything near as well read on the bible as others. I am Catholic and do go to church, but I read the story of the prodigal son and say, boy the son who never left his father's side is really getting the short end of the stick in my opinion. Heck, I AM that son wondering why the goof-off is getting catered to by his family upon returning. I've been here all the time. Throw me a bone why don't you.
Truthfully, slavery being in the bible doesn't make it right in my opinion. There are an awful lot of things that people in power/respect do, say and/or write that I don't agree with or abide by. But then again, I did categorize myself as a pot-stirrer on the recent poll.
Mobile, thank you for the information. That helped my understand the discussion more by siting the parts of the bible that dealt with slavery. Do all bible references to slavery deal with Africans or are other ethnicities covered? Because I'm thinking that anyone who was in debt to anyone else in those days could have been forced into some form of servitude. Thanks for the help.
Bart
__________________ "Thank You....Noooo."
Major Charles Emerson Winchester III M.A.S.H. 4077th
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